<p>I tried to do a few searches prior to posting. I'll admit; I find CC's search feature to be a little cumbersome. I don't often have much luck with it.</p>
<p>Anyway, I did find 3-4 threads on this topic from as late as 2008/2009. But I thought I'd go fishing again, for more current information as well as more in-depth information.</p>
<p>My son has heard two things in particular about searching for grad programs in voice. One, go where the money is. And two, choose your voice teacher, not your school. They both sound like great pieces of advice. But still. Aside from applying to the (schools of) teachers that HIS teachers recommend, what else should he be looking for, and where else should he apply?</p>
<p>Here are some of the schools that he's looking at so far, in no particular order:</p>
<p>Yale (exactly up his alley for many reasons; particularly Early Music)
Case Western
Peabody
Boston U
Indiana
McGill
College Conservatory of Music (CCM)
USC
Rice (except that he's not thrilled about Texas)</p>
<p>I can't remember why Curtis and MSM are not on the list. I think he talked about them at one time ... but they're not on this little piece of paper in front of me.</p>
<p>Comments? Suggestions? Other programs of note? Any personal experiences (yours or your kid's) with the Master of Music (Voice) program at any of these schools?</p>
<p>I don’t think that “go to where the money is” is as important as to “go to where the school is looking for his strengths” (In your students case, early music). Grad school auditions are usually like casting sessions for the upcoming productions. He is going to get money and stage time at a school that is looking for his voice to fit into the next few years productions. D applied and was admitted to two of the schools in your list, she did not go to either.(not that they were not great schools!) Even though she was offered generous amounts of scholarships, she chose the school that not only offered money, but they also offered very specific performance opportunities. You only have two years to get as much stage time as possible. If you only get one or two chances for a lead, then you are probably wasting your precious time. He should be encouraged to ask specific questions about what his potential opportunities would be at each school.</p>
<p>^That sounds like EXCELLENT feedback, musicamusica. Thanks so much! I’ll pass it along.</p>
<p>Just to be clear, for others who might respond: My son is not looking ONLY for early music. That is definitely one of his strengths and one of his interests. But he will NOT be limiting his grad school options to only those that have an early music program. He wants to do opera – he will view an early music emphasis as a bonus! :)</p>
<p>So, please include details about any school or teacher that comes to mind – whether or not early music is an option there.</p>
<p>He is a tenor, btw, if that helps with specific recommendations.</p>
<p>^^Btw, musicamusica, how does my son KNOW which schools are looking for which strengths?? Will the schools’ future opera productions be posted on their websites 1 and 2 years in advance? And is there a way to know how many graduate tenors a program already has? In other words, how can he put your good advice to use, specifically?</p>
<p>He should be networking and speaking with singers who have recently graduated or are currently attending these schools. Seek these people out at competitions, summer programs, and YAPS. Heck, even seek out individuals on facebook. Find out who the opera director or directors are. Can you meet with them? Find out who the hot tenors are in the program and , more importantly when will they be leaving. And he should call the specific teachers that he is interested in studying with and get their input. He doesnt have to be coy, they know that he is looking for stage time and they respect that. His grad school teacher should be someone who can work with his strengths and any of his weaknesses, so it’s also essential that he try and get a lesson well before his audition, if he can. D met some great teachers during this process and in fact she still gets advice, coachings and the occasional lesson from a few of them. In short he should be chatting with everyone who can give him some insight.
And, no, the upcoming productions are not usually listed. But one can get a sense from faculty and directors as to what sort of things will be happening in the near future.</p>
<p>^ and ^^ Thanks to both of you! (I’m gonna PM you, coloratura_as.)</p>
<p>musicamusica, I thought I read on previous threads (it’s been quite a while) that it’s NOT customary to get lessons with grad school profs or meet with opera directors prior to applying to programs. If I’m remembering right, posts that I read here quite some time ago said that grad profs are not interested in making time for prospective grad students prior to accepting them into their programs. Candidates should only contact opera directors and profs AFTER being accepted. Does that sound right? (I was just casually reading at the time – my son was still too young to worry about grad school; so I may have remembered all this wrong. I just remember that it made an impression on me that it was so different from his undergrad process.)</p>
<p>D applied to and was accepted to five schools-- USC, UCLA, U Mich, CCM, and SFCM. She had lessons BEFORE her auditions at each one.( She had, however, passed the prescreens.) She spoke with two different opera directors after she had been admitted, but before she she made her choice. In both cases, she was introduced to them by someone within the SOM. Opera directors are a bit more aloof and not as anxious to speak with students. And I remember that at least one teacher would not return her calls UNTIL he heard her prescreen. Her undergrad teacher was also effective in calling teachers that she knew, in order to get the inside information as to what sort of student they were looking for and this helped D narrow down her initial list of ten down to five.<br>
Have fun with all this…the tough thing is, that with grad school us parents are pretty much out of the loop But that’s as it should be.</p>
<p>^Yes. I totally agree with your last two statements. It’s totally appropriate that our “kids” do all the work on their own. It has to be that way. I sure did enjoy those undergrad college visits, but I sure don’t expect to go with my (what will be) 21 year old for grad school apps! I sure don’t see any harm in helping him with the initial research though. And, cool enough, he has asked for my help in forming his initial list. I’m sure his teachers will help, too, when the time comes. (He’s a junior.)</p>
<p>So I think I get what you’re saying … All grad schools have pre-screenings (did not know that), and AFTER your D’s successful pre-screens, she was able to have lessons with 5 different profs at 5 different schools. It sounds like her meetings with the opera directors were facilitated by other people within each SOM. All good to know.</p>
<p>I love that her undergrad teacher called around and got the inside scoop from teachers she knew. I can see my son’s teacher doing that for him. So did your D’s undergrad voice prof know the profs at all 5 of her prospective grad schools? Is that unusual? Are most good voice profs so well-connected that they know the other profs all across the country?</p>
<p>Thanks again, musicamusica. You’ve been very helpful!
:)</p>
<p>No, she knew people at some of the original list of around ten and was helpful with narrowing down to the five. (D wanted to make only five applications) Some schools, like Curtis, are looking for such a small amount of students that you might as well know specifically what they are looking for. This might be an irrelevant point since EVERYONE is looking for a good tenor. :)</p>
<p>My son visited and had lessons with his grad school voice teacher on and off for a couple of years. He definitely knew he was the teacher for him. Not only with regards to the student/teacher relationship but industry connections as well.</p>
<p>Coming in a little late on this one, but don’t rule out traveling w/your son to auditions. I remember one grad school audition weekend that involved travel between her “home” state, TN, NC and OH in only 4 days time. Since Most rental car companies have a 25-year age rqmt (our insurance company has a deal w/Hertz that permits a 21 year old rental), you might find he needs a driver! As it was we had weather issues that caused us to have to re-work our flight and hotel plans, and frankly the fact that I could attend to those issues and she didn’t become distracted by them was helpful to her. I notice Case Western is on your S list. Since he’s a singer he ought to look at CIM as he could get his MM/VP from them w/a certificate in Early Music from Case. I suppose it depends largely if he’s looking for ensemble experience or individual performance. Vinson Cole (noted tenor) is on the faculty at CIM.</p>
<p>Vinson Cole is a lovely person. Very supportive of his students. I have met him and a few of his students. They seem to be doing well and they love working with him.</p>
<p>^^Wow. That is very interesting, RCLCSKI! We did not know that CIM had an Early Music certificate! In fact, my son was at CIM somewhat recently, and he really liked what he saw & heard there! (And yes, RCLCSKI, I went with him – for exactly the reasons you named. Most significantly, to drive the rental car.) He did check out CIM’s faculty online, but so many faculty at so many schools have great bios. It’s not easy to tell for sure if that means that they’re great teachers. I mean, word of mouth (like yours and srw’s regarding Vinson Cole) feels more comfortable and reliable than merely reading somebody’s bio.</p>
<p>^ Regarding voice teachers, it’s a good idea to see what their students are doing…getting work, winning competitions, etc. Having a great voice/career does not mean you can actually teach others how to do it.</p>
<p>^Okay. But what’s the best way to figure out what their students are doing? We’ve noticed that if you come across a particularly successful singer, you can then go back to find out which college and (only sometimes) which teacher. But how do you find out what a teacher’s students are doing/have done? (short of speaking with the teacher) Know what I mean?</p>
<p>musicamusica provided a good answer for this: seek singers out at competitions, summer programs, YAPS, facebook, etc. Honestly, I don’t think my son has done any of that (not with relative strangers). It’s not like him to ask those kinds of questions of people, other than those he’s studied with and really knows. Perhaps it’s time to start… ?</p>
<p>I’m sure he’ll figure it out. I suppose it’s like the undergrad process – it all seemed so open-ended and overwhelming at the start; but as he proceeded, there was more and more clarity.</p>
<p>Most competitions have websites that list the winners. If the winners do not have a biography on that particular site they often have a website themselves and will list where they went to school and who they studied with. A magazine like Classical Singer, which is geared toward students and those with emerging careers is a good source of competition listings. Also many of the schools themselves will have a section on their website congratulating past and present students on their achievements and will often mention who’s studio they are/were from. It’s amazing that with a little research a pattern emerges quickly just which teachers seem to have the most successful students.</p>
<p>^Excellent. Thanks.
My son has actually searched a few schools’ websites for just such a list, btw – looking for congratulations for achievements, for this very purpose – but he didn’t have much luck. That was for just a handful of schools. I actually joined him in the google search at one school. I wasn’t successful either. It’s funny, because I KNOW where to go for such a list at his current school. It makes me wonder if the lists are there for these other schools but we’re just not adept enough at finding them.</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks for all the info, srw. You’ve been helpful! :)</p>
<p>Just to clarify, CIM does not have an EMC per se, but CIM and Case have an arrangement whereby students at one school are able to take coursework at the other. Undergrads at CIM take most of their GE requirements at Case, and grad students in need of fulfilling language deficiencies or music history do that at Case, and are allowed to take “other” coursework at Case as well. CIM puts on 2 fully staged operas each year (with orchestra) as well as an opera scenes program each spring (accompanied by piano). If vocal performance is your son’s primary interest, with an emphasis in baroque opera/early music, then by all means, take a look at CIM for MM/VP while fulfilling requirements for Early Music Certificate through Case Western Reserve. As far as grad school is concerned (I cannot speak to their undergrad program), CIM is a wonderful place!</p>
But that’s as it should be.</p>