Four years ago, CC was awesome in helping me guide a friend and her son as he looked for engineering programs in the midwest. He did end up at a good school and is graduating next May. Back then, he thought he wanted to work in gun design, but now has changed his interest to robotics. His mom does not really spend any time on the computer (is working full time and going to school herself), so last week I got a call from her (we don’t see each other very often any more, so the call was a surprise), saying her son was so impressed with how I guided them in the process of finding his program for undergraduate, that he was wondering if I might tap my resources to help him find a graduate program that will help him land a job in robotics. The two of them are coming over tomorrow, and I am at a loss as to where to start. So I’m guessing what I need help from at this point is asking the right kinds of questions to help direct the search, such as is there a geographic limitation, what were your grades like as an undergrad, do you prefer public over private to save money, etc.
What other kinds of questions should I ask them tomorrow so that I can come back here and provide information that might help members make suggestions for programs.
I absolutely do not mind a bit helping them out again; in fact, I was so flattered that he even remembered that I was the person who guided him four years ago; I haven’t seen this kid in four years. I know the mom because D2 and her daughter were in the same high school class, and the mom and I became friends then.
I do think he needs to take a stake in the search process, and will when asked to handle certain tasks. I am suspecting because it’s summer and he’s home without a full-time job, he is wanting to work on some of this now, instead of waiting until he gets back to school for the fall semester, but that means he doesn’t have easy access to professors on his campus right now.
Would starting to study for the GRE be a constructive thing for him to start doing this summer also?
I don’t think all the wish list stuff about location and all will really matter much when there aren’t very many programs to choose from. He should instead do some research for who else has a program comparable to the ones above, and apply to all of them. These require the GRE for admission, so he should certainly start studying for that exam.
He should know that his competition for admission may include people who have been involved in robotics since high school if not sooner, so he should have a compelling story and related extracurricular activities in addition to the usual good grades and test scores.
So far, in my google search, I’m finding master’s programs at (WPI, Michigan, CMU that you mentioned): Oregon State University, UPenn, Johns Hopkins, WUSTL, Northwestern University, University of Maryland, USC, Berkeley, University of Utah, UT-Austin (graduate portfolio program), UC-San Diego, UC-Santa Clara (robotics emphasis offered with graduate degrees in other programs), University of South Florida, and Boston University. Does this seem like a thorough list?
Don’t forget the grad school forum here, although it isn’t super busy there is often good advice if the right people come in at the right time. there is also thegradcafe Grad school search isn’t usually as similar to undergrad search. Yes he should know his gpa, but often grad schools are going to look at the gpa of the major or the last 60 units. I realize I am not sure how that works when you apply fall sr year. they will get your transcripts up through fall only.
I think Robotics is specialized enough that he might want to identify what area in particular he is interested in. Also some of the programs may not offer MS only, if that is what he is interested in. Does he know programming? My dd was involved with the robotics club at school and mainly what they did was programming. Also computer vision so more of a CS area, maybe or hybrid? But some clubs probably build their own.
Yes he should prep and take the GRE this summer if possible since he has a lot of time. The fall will be busy with applications so if he gets the GRE out of the way that will help. He can also work on his personal statement. I would start by putting together a CV that he will need to submit anyway. Relevant coursework, research experiences, posters or conferences, publications, if any, internships, TA or tutor experience. He will need up to 3 letters of recomendation and hopefully 2 he did research or projects with.
Why isn’t he doing research this summer or interning? Both with strengthen an application. He shouldn’t overlook job hunting either in a related area and that will help him know what he would want out of grad school or how necessary it is. Encourage him to talk to as many professors as possible to get ideas for where to apply. He can use his CV if they don’t know him as well. Another thing to do is to look at companies that work in robotics or people who have the types of jobs he would like and see where they went to school or what type of degrees they hire. A lot of time when you are going for a PhD you would be looking a papers written in the sub-field you are interested and researching where the authors teach.
Some uni’s that don’t have a robotics specific degree may very likely have robotics research groups. I don’t know how to find them but this list may help http://robotics.nasa.gov/students/robo_u.
Thanks everyone… you gave me some great questions to start with, and now I’m afraid I overwhelmed him today! But he’s very motivated, has an outstanding GPA (including within his major), had done some preliminary research into programs, and knows what things he needs to work on over the summer. I showed him the graduate school forum, as well as the GRE forum on CC, and he will be using those as resources to start off. He’s got a great senior year planned with several robotics electives. I also threw out the option of taking a year off between undergrad and graduate school if he wants to pad his resume to make himself competitive in the top tier schools. Lots of choices, but lots of homework to do. I told him how helpful the CC parents were, if he wanted to create a membership on CC and pick some brains, too.
It was an educational process for me, as I had little to no knowledge of how the GRE has evolved in the 30 years since H took it!
@GMTplus7 - I suspect if you want to be competitive in the field he wants to be in (most likely working for defense contractors), a master’s will be really beneficial, especially if you have not gotten your undergrad in robotics.
@teriwitt
Some notes from a current grad student in Robotics at CMU:
You do not necessarily need a degree in robotics to do robotics work or research. There are relatively few true robotics programs, so companies also hire people with degrees in computer science, mechanical engineering, and electrical and computer engineering. A master’s degree (either in robotics or one of the above related fields) is quite beneficial.
Since robotics covers a very wide range of topics, it will be necessary to show, through research or targeted classwork, an area of concentration. The main decision he need to make now is whether he wants to pursue a PhD or a Master’s. If he wants to do academic research or industry work at PhD level, he should be aiming for PhD programs, which would require previous research experience, letters of rec from professors, etc. If he just wants the master’s, then grades, GRE, and possible work experience will be the main focus in getting into a terminal masters program. Of course, there is overlap between the requirements for PhD and Master’s, but previous academic research is definitely emphasized for the PhD.
In this particular engineering field, there are programmatic differences between degrees intended for academia or PhD level industry work and those intended for master’s level industry work, and he should be sure that programs he applies to fit his goal.
@rancek - LOL - I JUST sent him an email with basically that information before reading your post. When H came home tonight, I told him about our conversation today, and H actually has a good contact with a guy at work who did his undergrad, master’s, and Ph.D. at MIT in engineering, but is involved in robotics at the major pharmaceutical he and H work at. H is willing to contact this guy and see if he’s willing to sit down and talk with the student, which would be great… we’ve found that many scientists at that level are openly willing to offer their wisdom; I know H has done it for occasional students here and there and enjoys it.
But what it made me think about, was a comment I initially overlooked when the student made it today, that he was interested in master’s level programs because he wasn’t interested in academics/teaching. It totally went over my head this afternoon, which surprised me because most of the scientists H deals with every day at work (in industry) are Ph.D. level-scientists… people who got the Ph.D. and had no intention of teaching/academics. But I want to be sure he is aware that he need not shut himself out of possible Ph.D. work because he doesn’t want to teach. If he want to pursue a Ph.D., he would really need to get hooked up with a professor in his final year to do some research work, though. With his GPA and motivation, I think it’s very doable. And yes, he would need to pay attention to the subtle differences between programs designed to lead to academia and programs designed for industry.
And I admitted my bias for Ph.D. programs due to H’s success, but I just don’t want him to rule it out for the wrong reasons. And yes, regardless, he will need the GRE. I encouraged him to start a spread sheet as he researches each program so he can use that as reference when he starts talking with various people, whether it be at his own college or people in industry.
I applaud you for helping this family. But keep in mind that grad school research is much different from undergrad. Much depends on the desired area of specialty/research.
It’s good that you are giving the student points to ponder. Just encourage him to also leverage his campus adviser and professors. They may have some very specific, insightful recommendations. .
@colorado_mom - yes, I did ask him about possible relationships with professors/TAs at his current college and he did seem to indicate there were a couple of people he could tap into. I hadn’t even thought of his academic advisor, but H mentioned it when he came home and we talked about it, although sometimes students end up with academic advisors that aren’t necessarily in the student’s field. But there should be someone in his department, aside from professors/TAs, that he could talk to. It will be a matter of him discovering who the best person is for him when he returns next month.
@raneck Post #6: Did I read recently of a large exodus of engineering/robotics faculty from CMU for private industry? Or am I confusing CMU with another university?
Yes, a large number of researchers at at the CMU NREC facility left to work (literally across the street) for Uber. NREC works mainly on DOD projects, and with the recent contraction of federal funding it is not surprising that this happened. However, the researchers there for the most part are not teaching or advising faculty, and NREC is a self-funded entity, so the effects on the rest of the campus are limited. So NREC is having a bit of a crisis, as they may be shorthanded for their current grants.
Another important issue when deciding between a masters and a phd program is that many phd programs are fully funded whereas most masters programs are self-funded.
@ChowdyCat - I know that’s true in chemistry and most other hard sciences, but can we assume it’s that way for engineering or computer science (depending on which department the robotics program operates under)?
The funding breakdown tends to be that PhD students are guaranteed funding for some amount of time by the department upon admission (in the form of assistantships or fellowships). Master’s students may be able to obtain support through assistantships, but it is not guaranteed, and funding the PhD students has first priority.
In my program phd students are guaranteed funding so long as we remain in good standing with the program.
terwitt - It’s good that he is tapping into campus resources.
I did A LOT of research and guidance for DS’s applications to Engineering programs. It made sense then, when he was very busy and clueless. This year he graduated from college and opted to go into industry.(Side note - he decided that in junior year. It ended up being a blessing since he could concentrate on the job searc.) If he had considered grad school. I honestly would have been uninvolved despite the fact that DH and I are both engineers and my hobby is hanging out on CC. Grad school is a whole different ballgame. Happily… for STEM fields it is usually “funded”, w/o parent financing.