masters in education, lots of questions

Graduate School
1

<p>I graduated in 2005 with a major in History and minor in Business with the intention of attending law school in 2007. For the past year i have been working at a law firm and studying the lsat, which i plan to take in september.</p>

<p>I am starting to have second thoughts about a career in law and have some random, preliminary questions concerning the pursuit of a teaching career.</p>

<li><p>How difficult is it to be accepted into a competitive graduate education program? </p></li>
<li><p>does it really help to have a masters from a competitive program? would i have more job opportunities after completing a competitive program? does name recognition really matter? Does the quality of the education really diminish? Is there such thing as a competitive graduate education program?</p></li>
<li><p>i love history, but i’ve heard the job market is brutal. From a financial standpoint, would it payoff in the long run to take some math classes to tack on with my history major? i enjoy math and wish i would have majored or minored it.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Any input would be deeply appreciated.</p>

<p>thanks a ton</p>

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<p>i wrote this with the assumption, i think, that before i would go to graduate school, i might need to take some undergrad education course? </p>

<p>so tired. i apologize for the incoherency of my late night posts.</p>

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<p>If you're looking at the M.Ed. or MAT as a primary/secondary teaching credential you're probably best off looking at the top two or three programs in the state where you plan to teach. </p>

<p>I can't speak to difficulty of admission in general, however the University of Minnesota College of Education, which is probably a mid to upper top twenty school states: "About two-thirds of those who apply are accepted." (<a href="http://education.umn.edu/teaching/teachers.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://education.umn.edu/teaching/teachers.html&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<p>In addition, schools of education have, on average, just about the lowest GRE means (V450, Q534, A4.3) of any of the fields ETS publishes results on. </p>

<p>Check the websites of the universities in your state and (possibly) your state's Department of Education website for details of what undergrad preparation you'll need for a given subject certification.</p>

<p>The job market varies by state/city/subject so obviously it pays to be able to teach more than one subject. If you're willing to go rural or urban, there are plenty of jobs. One subject that's needed almost everywhere: Latin.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Great advice, WilliamC! I took three years of Latin in high school and didn't know that there was such a demand for teachers. Interesting...
From what I 've seen and heard, Math, Physics and Special Ed. are at the top of the list of most needed teaching specialties. History is near the bottom, along w/Phys. Ed. and English.
If you want to teach Math, there may be some programs in your targeted state that will award a M.A.T. if you complete some mathematics courses along w/education courses. Often you only need 2/3 semesters of Calculus and Linear Algebra to be accepted. You can knock that out at a community college.
Definitely talk to someone in the know in the state (and possibly area of the state) that you are interested in, tell them what you would like to do and ask them what is the best way to get there.</p>

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<p>thanks for your replies.</p>

<p>latin...i would have never thought. that's really interesting. i'm glad to see that our country's education system value the classics.</p>

<p>everything about education sounds more attractive to me than the law.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>no lsat.</p></li>
<li><p>easier to get into a solid program.</p></li>
<li><p>unlike the lack of supply of teachers in many areas, there are just too many lawyers out there (I think its the glamour and overall positive societal perception of the profession). anyways, as odd as it sounds, employment prospects are strangely more positive for teachers than lawyers.</p>

<p>well.. these reasons sound superficial. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>anyways, thanks for your input</p>

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<p>OK, one more thing. It helps (esp. at a secondary level) if you can coach a sport. And that says a lot...</p>

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<p>ha, i might have a litte trouble with that.</p>

<p>i love sports and wouldn't mind coaching anything.</p>

<p>but regarding experience, i only played golf in high school.</p>

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<p>"In addition, schools of education have, on average, just about the lowest GRE means (V450, Q534, A4.3) of any of the fields ETS publishes results on."</p>

<p>Yeah, I've been curious about this fact. I mean, what do these education aspirants actually study in college??? If they're not good at math, have a limited vocabulary, and aren't strong writers, what <em>are</em> they good at?</p>

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<p>like i briefly mentioned in my previous posting, i just don't think that many people aspire to be teachers anymore. bascially, low supply.</p>

<p>in contrast, from my experience, the field of law is oversaturated. there's more selectivity at law schools.</p>

<p>Here's a random, but relevant story:
i went to a solid, but smaller, Jesuit university and studied history. most of the professors received their PHD's from ivy league schools. one professor, a Columbia grad, who received tenure and was at the university for 17 years, commented/complained that she made 60 thousand a year.</p>

<p>insane. if she would have taught history at a public high school for that long, she whould have recieved a similar salary, with about 4 or 5 years less of education.</p>

<p>so, i think its a prestige thing</p>

<p>i'm not saying that secondary education is an easy, cushy pursuit. But it does make you think, if your aspire to teach a field in the humanities, it might be a better decision to dedicate yourself to be a high school teacher rather than a college professor.</p>

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<p>actually not columbia, but Brown, I think. or maybe dartmouth.</p>

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<p>I've been a HS social studies teacher for 5 years. I desperately wish I had another subject I could teach, because the job market for social studies teachers is completely nonexistent.</p>

<p>If you do your masters in education, you will not need undergrad classes, as your education classes will be part of your grad program. I highly recommend going this route instead of just doing undergrad certification, because the MEd will boost your salary and make you a more desirable prospect.</p>

<p>Ed grad degrees have lower requirements because they are easy. Compare them to any other grad program, and they are a joke. You will design lessons, write papers on methods, and discuss theories of education that will never actually apply to reality. This is the consensus of every intelligent teacher I have ever met that has done one of these programs. Actual teaching, on the other hand, is hard. It will probably be one of the hardest things you have ever done.</p>

<p>Latin is a great thing to be certified in - there is an increasing demand, as more and more schools are putting it back in their curriculum. If you can tack on math, chem, or physics, even better. Other languages are always in demand. If you have the opportunity to take classes for an endorsement in reading, grab it quick, because NCLB has created a demand for that as well. You can find out the requirements for certification through your state's department of education (or board of education, if you're in Illinois). Don't enter a master's program unless you know for sure it will certify you in the areas you want. Compare the options each program gives you.</p>

<p>As far as what program to choose, the options it gives you is far more important than the name. Unless you are going for a degree in administration, which you aren't, the name barely matters. Schools aren't name driven like every other occupation - they only care what they can get out of you, and that means certification areas, experience with diverse populations of students, and class management (BTW, if your program offers a course in class management, take that, too - it's great on a resume when applying for jobs).</p>

<p>Any other questions, I'd be happy to answer.</p>

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<p>thanks for the post. lots of good information.</p>

<p>sounds like education is almost exactly the opposite from law school, with highly competitive admission standards and the importance of name recognition. </p>

<p>I guess there might be some logic to it. Its difficult to teach how to teach, so less emphasis is placed on graduate school.</p>

<p>still, its a little disappointing to hear that they aren't a little more rigorous. </p>

<p>just out a curiosity (because i know i wouldn't fall into this group), is it common for one to get an undergrad degree in education, and teach a subject in which they receive their masters in?</p>

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<p>Not really. The only way to get an undergrad major in education is to do elementary education or special ed - there is no such thing anymore as an undergrad major in secondary ed. All secondary ed teachers major in their subject and minor in secondary ed, which is kind of a gyp since the hours for a sec ed minor are pretty hefty. I had to take 21 hours of classes plus three preclinical experiences (where you go in your "free time" - HA! - and observe and teach in a classroom) for a total of 105 hours, plus 16 weeks of student teaching, which is full time teaching, but instead of getting paid, I got to pay to do it. Of course, this is my MINOR, so I was also completing my soc studies-history MAJOR. The moral of the story is, never make fun of a sec ed student - they're definitely working hard. At least, most of them are.</p>

<p>In a masters program, they'll get you all your necessary ed classes and experiences, plus a student teaching stint. You might get lucky and have a school that only requires you to do 10 weeks of student teaching. There's no way out of it, either, and that's basically a full time job, so plan carefully for that block of time. You likely won't be able to work much on the side while student teaching.</p>

<p>Oh, and BTW, I've never coached a sport, and in my experience only a few states really insist upon it. In most cases those are nice little stipends, so they're hogged by the teachers who have been there awhile. It can help, but isn't generally a deal breaker.</p>

<p>What state are you looking to teach in?</p>

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<p>I am a resident of Michigan now, so that would probably be the cheapest option.</p>

<p>But i do have some savings, and could manage going to a private or public school out of Michigan, which does sound somewhat attractive.</p>

<p>It sounds like one typically ends up teaching in the state in which they graduated in.</p>

<p>so i guess it might be a good idea to look into schools in states that have teacher shortages.??</p>

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<p>Generally speaking, it's easier to teach in the state you get your education degree, because they gear their curriculum to meet the requirements of that state's certification. It's easier nowadays to go from state to state, but if you go to school in a state that's different than the one you want to live in, double check their requirements so you can meet them. Some states are easy with teachers certified in another state, and some are a royal pain in the ass. Off the top of my head, Florida, North Carolina, and Arizona have been very easy to work with, but Colorado, California, and the entire New England area has been difficult. Of course, all that changes if you're certified in math, science, or a language. Be sure to get your degree as cheaply as you can, though - teaching pays very little, and you don't want to be stuck with tons of loans on you meager salary. And save your money for possible relocation costs.</p>

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<p>I apologize for being repetitive. you've basically already answered this question. but i just want to make sure.</p>

<p>Would it be advantageous for me to receive masters at schools like Michigan or Michigan State rather than Ferris State or Central Michigan State?</p>

<p>Judging from all of the schools very similar GRE scores, I don't think it should. but I'm carious if a masters at Michigan or Michigan state (which is the Us news top secondary education) might have more of a pull for out of state private schools or the peace corp. or something else. </p>

<p>it does look like Ferris and central would be cheaper.</p>

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<p>The Peace Corps couldn't care one whit.</p>

<p>As far as private schools are concerned, yes, it may make a bit of difference. But you have to ask yourself, are you going to pay more money for a school so you can get a teaching job in a private school that pays less than public schools? You're better off getting your degree cheaper and teaching in a good public school district. As far as getting a job goes, schools just want to see a good portfolio and good letters of recommendation, plus any experience you have with different age groups, ability levels, ethnicities, etc.</p>

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<p>I'm def. planning on going the public school rout. </p>

<p>In fact, i'm kind of concerned about the conditions of the public schools since a large portion of teachers are willing to give up thousands of dollars in salary and other benifits to teach in the private schools (i've been taught in the private schools my entire life, and the teachers never failed to mention their opportunity cost). </p>

<p>I use to think it was just that my teachers had wealthy spouses and therefore had the means. but I don't think that was really the case.</p>

<p>oh well, i consider myself tough minded enough to rise above anything.</p>

<p>thanks for the information.</p>

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<p>After teaching in public schools 5 years, I would give up thousands of dollars in salary to teach in a private school, too. They're better run and support their teachers much better. I don't advise it for someone who has students loans, etc., but as I have no debt anymore, I'd love to do it.</p>

<p>The public school environment is very political and gossipy. You will probably be shocked - most are. The size and reputation of the district matters not. My best advice to you would be to not trust anyone for at least a semester in your new job. Sad, but true.</p>

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<p>Unlike Public schools, Private schools don't have to put up with troublemakers and superslackers. That's why a lot of teachers will take a pay cut to work there. Supply and demand...</p>