I agree that on paper Temple seems like a great fit (though they also charge tiered tuition levels for the business school and for upperclassmen I believe). But if you haven’t already visited, I would make sure to tour before applying. It is not in the greatest area of Philly and there have been a few murders on/near campus over the past few years. Our good friend’s daughter lasted 3 days (didn’t even make it all the way through orientation) before dropping out and coming home because she didn’t feel safe there. YMMV of course - lots of kids from our high school go there and love it.
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Exactly my thought. U of Michigan will give nothing, and UMD will give almost nothing (if anything.) People correctly mentioned that Tulane now hard to get money too. DD got nothing from UMich, our friend’s kid got almost nothing from Tulane…
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Yes Temple was under consideration until we started reading about the issues with crime around campus. None of us feel D is equipped to handle that type of environment right now.
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The schools below all have popular business programs, but by their numbers (and/or types) of art majors leads me to think they’d have good art facilities, too. If I write less for some than for others, it is due to fatigue, not the worthiness of the schools. Please note that I indicate the sticker prices, but at the vast majority of these schools, I would expect merit aid, and at some of the schools (particularly the flagships of not-so-popular states, some significant merit aid).
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Christopher Newport (VA): About 4400 undergrads, with 4% identifying as Asian. Very popular art major, as well as business major. Sticker of about $41k.
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Creighton (NE): About 4300 undergrads at this school in Omaha (with about 8% of students identifying as Asian). Known more for its business programs, but has a relatively good proportion of students going on for majors in fine arts. Sticker of about $58, and I suspect your D would get some very nice merit aid here.
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Howard (D.C.): About 9800 undergrads at this HBCU (with about 3% identifying as Asian and 15% unknown). Howard also has a reputation for the arts. Sticker of about $47k
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Rochester Institute of Technology (NY): About 14k undergrads. This school is known for combining the arts with technology, which means that your D might very much like the arts offerings here. Additionally, the fact that she’s female will likely bring more merit money, too. This school also has a history of building in co-ops. Sticker of about $69k, but I think your D could receive some very nice merit. 11% identify as Asian.
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SUNY New Paltz: About 6100 undergrads with 4% identifying as Asian. Sticker of about $34k, but they also have a flagship match program where they guarantee tuition won’t be more than Penn State’s. With majors in ceramics, sculpture, photography, printmaking, etc, I suspect that your D will be fond of the art facilities.
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The College of New Jersey: About 7k undergrads, with 11% identifying as Asian. Sticker of about $45k.
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U. of Alabama – Birmingham: About 13k undergrads, with 8% identifying as Asian. Sticker of about $34-35k.
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U. of Arkansas: About 26k undergrads, with 3% identifying as Asian. Sticker of about $40k.
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U. of Cincinnati (OH): Around 30k undergrads. Strong co-op focus here, and popular art-related majors. Sticker around $40-41k. Like all Ohio publics, tuition will freeze for four years. 5% identify as Asian.
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U. of Iowa: About 22k undergrads, with 5% identifying as Asian. Sticker of about $44k.
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U. of Kansas: About 19k undergrads, with 6% identifying as Asian. Sticker of about $38k.
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U. of Louisville (KY): About 16k undergrads, with 6% identifying as Asian. Sticker of about $40k.
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U. of Minnesota – Twin Cities: Around 39k undergrads, with 12% identifying as Asian. Sticker of about $47k.
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U. of Missouri: About 24k undergrads, with 3% identifying as Asian. Sticker of about $42k.
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U. of North Carolina – Charlotte: About 23k undergrads, with 10% identifying as Asian. Sticker of about $35k.
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U. of San Francisco (CA): About 6k undergrads. 26% identify as Asian. Sticker of about $72k. Although I think your D would get merit, I don’t know if it’d be sufficient to make this school a strong contender.
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U. of South Carolina: About 27k undergrads, with 4% identifying as Asian. Sticker of about $46k. An extremely well-reputed honors college and a top school for international business.
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U. of Utah: About 26k undergrads and fairly easy to get residency after the first year (dropping sticker costs from about $42k to about $21k). Well-reputed honors college. 8% of students identify as Asian.
Seconding (thirding or fourthing?) Binghamton.
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Even though she applied, my youngest was not going to Temple. I didn’t like driving around that area (if I had to stop) decades ago, though there are still plenty of kids we know who go there and like it (though they either live on campus or very close by - within a block).
Maybe I missed it, but where are you in PA? From the suburban public, I would think either near Pittsburgh or Philadelphia - there are some decent choices in either area.
Getting into Honors at Temple is important because it guarantees housing all 4 years - no need to walk outside campus in the evenings (campus is patrolled and as safe as usual urban campuses).
Whenever you WANT to get off campus and into Philly, you can walk/hop on a SEPTA train at your chosen times (with s.o walking with you if necessary, a service offered on most college campuses including Penn State and Pitt).
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There are just as many parties at schools like Tulane and USC, which still regularly rank as the top party schools in the country despite their strong academic reputation. I would try to have her take a second look at Alabama and others given your desire for merit aid if possible
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Does she have a sub discipline of business ? For example, accounting UIUC is tops. Supply chain - Michigan State and ASU are always tops and UTK is there too. MIS - Arizona, Minnesota are strong.
Schools like Bama and even Arkansas have big money. They’ve invested heavily. Culverhouse is now a top 25ish b school. Again rankings are to sell magazines. Look at who is getting jobs. She’s buying into hot air and even if not, you have a budget. They make it. And you will not find a nicer campus - except maybe Va Tech. We’ve read of so many on here like my son - they visit and are sold. There was a recent Pitt Flip. The mom said her son texted from school. My son applied and didn’t tell us. I thought it was Purdue. The pressure from us is due to budget. KU, Ms State, Truman State, West Chester, Stroudsburg, W Carolina - whatever works. And frankly, there’s a great chance she’ll have the same or similar job coming out. My son had 20 intvws, 5 offers and works in a leadership cohort with Purdue grads. In the end, your student will most assuredly contribute to her own success more than the school.
Btw the biggest party schools change year to year but typically include Tulane, Syracuse, USC, Florida State, UCSB, UGA, Wisconsin, Penn State - check those rankings. Every school has parties.
It’s family choice but until you pull the $35k away, we have to push you toward $35k or in your case $20k at that school. That’s why it’s 58% OOS. And why NMS go there in drives - they get 5 years free tuition. People follow the $$.
I’m not saying a specific school is right but I do know those you are mainly looking at aren’t due to price.
Take care of family finances first and foremost.
She’s interested a more math related tracks so possibly finance, business analytics, management information systems or even supply chain with a data science minor or double major. She’s definitely more of a STEM kid with a strong interest in math, but doesn’t want to do pure math or engineering. I think she needs to go somewhere that offers a wide variety of programs/classes so she can do some exploration and there is some flexibility in declaring her final major focus.
Encourage your D to do a brief detour to look at Arts and sciences (not a business school) if her true interests are somewhere in the “applied math with practical applications” field. There are fantastic career paths open to kids like this-- but at many colleges, they won’t be in a business program.
Biostatistics (how cool is it to be on a team at a pharma company figuring out how different people/populations respond to different dosages or different medications?), Behavioral Economics (encourage her to read the work of Professor Richard Thaler and colleagues-- Nobel Prize winning work) which sits at the intersection of econ and psychology, Epidemiology (why and how are different viruses transmitted and why is it that lots of people will die from an epidemic in one part of the world and not another… among other problems that epidemiology tries to solve)— so many cool and interesting career paths.
A kid who loves math and Stem can find LOTS of practical applications that are not engineering/pure math. So if she wants to explore a bunch of different fields, she may find Arts and Sciences a more receptive home than a business program.
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Did she consider Industrial/Systems Engineering, before ruling engineering out? It’s much more business-adjacent than other engineering fields, and graduates are in demand in many of the same fields she’s considering. For example, look at the areas of concentration available within the major at Pitt: Academics
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Agreed - math majors open you to a lot of things. And one doesn’t need to do supply chain or MIS to get jobs. Heck, I had a supply chain offer out of grad school with one elective. My nephews is in CS (not MIS) and has a poli sci degree. So avenues are always open.
I keep coming back to Purdue. @momofboiler1 might know better but Krannert is “operations” focused in some ways. COA is a tad over $35K but much closer to it than your $55K initial worst case and they haven’t raised tuition in a dozen years. Merit is not probable but is possible. It’s huge like OSU (population wise) but and having been to both, it’s more contained - it doesn’t have the sprawl. Of 9,353 first year, 1,375 were Asian - so that’s healthy.
U.S. News & World Report (2023)
#9 - Production / Operations Management
#12 - Supply Chain Management / Logistics
#17 - Analytics
#30 - Overall
For Supply Chain, ASU is going to be tops and again, high 30s cost wise after $15K off. It’s #8 in analytics. I didn’t list Mich State for cost reasons. UTK is another to look at for supply chain - 238 of 6846 are Asian. I didn’t run the scholarships but at $52K and she’d get a good one. It could work. They place very well. It’s drivable from PA (closer than you think).
For MIS, U of Arizona is a home run - #4 and well under your budget. ASU is 1,476 out of 15,151 and U of Arizona is 496 out of 9,069.
Ohio State really is a good fit - if you decide to afford it - strong in so many disciplines with 835 of 8423 first year classifying as Asian. And IU - really strong in most everything - but again, you’ll get merit and I suspect under $50K, but likely about it. They show 1,031 of 9,736.
As I keep pushing as a cost leader, Bama is 106 of 8,037. PSU is 630 of 9,216. Pitt is 678 of 4390 so more diverse than PSU. U of Kansas would also make budget, has a top honors, and it’s 271 of 4457 Asian. UCF would likely hit budget as would FSU and I posted before. I like UCF as it’s similar to OSU - sprawl and near city. UCF is 707/7512 and with merit should hit and FSU is 2,065 of 6,030
I don’t think there’s a wrong choice as long as it’s within your financial comfort zone (which I took as $35K but it might be higher). This should be first and foremost - love you honey but do you want an inheritance :). Both my kids chose safeties and both are kicking a$$ so far - but it’s because of them, not the schools - and your child will too. Whether you spend $20K, $35K, or $55K, your daughter will do well.
OK - enough opining - sorry to over step - hope that helps.
Yes I agree and so does she. She keeps going back and forth on what to study. She’s taking AP Econ and a bioinformatics course this year and I’m hoping that may help her make a more informed decision.
That was one of my suggestions and I’m not sure why she didn’t consider it more. I’m trying to get her to consider information systems as a better option, however the programs we visited had fairly low female enrollment #s and that turned her off. And the engineering info sessions we attended really bored her so that was not a good sign.
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Not overstepping at all!!! You, as well as everyone else, have given me a lot of food for thought. I appreciate the time you’ve taken to give me some very useful feedback.
If one isn’t into engineering, it’s not for them…you have to be all in. And as long as she’s at a school with many majors, she’ll be ok.
Typically, it’s best to start in business or engineering and transfer out vs. the other way though…easier to get into Arts/Sciences, etc.
So where does the art facility thing factor in - I missed that but you mentioned it earlier. Is this a dual major?
Yup as a person who slogged through an engineering degree, I’m definitely not going to push it since the interest doesn’t seem that strong.
I think that is her strategy for now just because getting into business programs later seems to be challenging at some schools. Admissions advised applying and then transferring out if it’s not what she decides she wants.
Art is a very strong interest of hers, she has taken private studio art classes for years and wants to continue with that in college. She is planning to minor if it works out.
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Makes sense. Another out-of-the-box possibility (geographically anyway) would be the Raikes School at UNL. (Nebraska probably isn’t on her geographic radar, but Lincoln - dubbed the Silicon Prairie - is reportedly a great small city for students and one with a lot of great internship opportunities, etc.) It’s a highly-selective cohort program (and Raikes students are housed together as well), so no worries about motivated peers. The core curriculum blends business, CS, data science, and design/innovation; and then students choose a major, which can be in any related field (so she could do math, data analytics, supply chain/business analytics, finance - many options. UNL also has a studio art BA which is amenable to double-majoring.). Curriculum | Jeffrey S. Raikes School of Computer Science and Management | Nebraska With a relatively low sticker price and generous merit, it’s almost certain to be affordable, and there seems to be a pretty good gender balance in the cohort. (They’re working on the racial-diversity aspect - see this statement from 2020: https://raikes.unl.edu/newsletter/2020/racialinjustice/ ). Not sure if the program would appeal or not, but it would give her a broad foundation and flexibility to explore and choose a major within that framework.
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FYI, at some schools, studio art classes are for majors only. I’d definitely look at accessibility of art classes in addition to facilities.
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Surprisingly, MSU would come really close to 35k because Pennsylvania residents get $17,500 and she would also be admitted to the honors colleges, which would lead to at least 5k, if not potentially more.
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