<p>Hello,
I am going to be a student at MIT next year; is there an equivalent of Harvard's Math55 course? Also, could I take Math55 at Harvard during my freshman year?</p>
<p>Try 18.700/18.701. Don’t know if it’s harder than Harvard’s Math 55 (linear algebra), but I’ve HEARD it’s significantly challenging even from people who’ve qualified USAMO. </p>
<p>Anyways, my best advice is to refrain from taking classes based on ego alone; take what you need for learning purposes, because, from my experience, a lot of people are tempted to take harder and more numerous classes only to find that they’re pretty much dying as semester wears on.</p>
<p>I was mainly wanting to know for self motivation purposes. If I force a load on myself, I will generally complete it successfully. I think it would be a healthy move for academic reasons to take a class of that caliber (so much knowledge so little time). It will also shorten the amount of time needed before I can start helping others at a higher level in mathematics.</p>
<p>@Shrig,
We had a thread on this a year or so ago, but I can’t seem to retrieve it. However, in 2008 the question came up on the Harvard board, here: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/494596-math-harvard-vs-mit.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/494596-math-harvard-vs-mit.html</a>.</p>
<p>Back in 2004, the Harvard Crimson ran a story about how some MIT students were coming to take a few courses not offered at MIT, including Math 55. As I understand it, Math 55 combines the content of at least two or three advanced courses that are offered separately at MIT. You can find that story here:
[Harvard</a> Crimson: Computer Courses Draw MIT Students](<a href=“http://www.vocaboly.com/forums/ftopic606.html]Harvard”>http://www.vocaboly.com/forums/ftopic606.html).
Harvard students also enroll at MIT for courses they can’t get at Harvard. </p>
<p>The son of a good friend of mine was admitted to Harvard and MIT and actually chose Harvard so he could take the class. Since their family was over for dinner during Christmas, we asked him how he liked Harvard. He really enjoyed Math 55. There’s a lot of collaboration between the math departments at Harvard and MIT, and now that he’s interested in computer science, he’s taking some classes at MIT. I think he’s now sort of on the fence as to which would have been the best fit, because most of his peers who are really strong in math seem to be planning careers on Wall Street, which is not his thing. But he’s fine at Harvard.</p>
<p>If you’re admitted to both, just choose the place where you feel most comfortable. If you know for sure you’re going to MIT and want to enroll in Math 55, then you can have the best of both worlds, as far as I know. Maybe some MIT math majors will scroll through this thread and give you more information.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can take Math 55 at Harvard if you go to MIT anymore, I know a few people that tried but weren’t able to. Most people at MIT who I would think would take Math 55 at Harvard usually take 18.100B/C, 18.701, and 18.702 (Analysis I, Algebra I, and Algebra II respectively). If you add on 18.124 or something (Complex Analysis), then that should cover everything in Math 55 - Linear and Abstract Algebra and Real and Complex Analysis, though I’m not sure if the subject materiel lines up exactly.</p>
<p>Taking all four classes freshman year I think is really rare though, especially with credit limits and stuff, and not even that many people take the three.</p>
<p>Also, if you think you have the ability to handle Math 55, I would try to avoid 18.700 (Linear Algebra, proof-based) and just take 18.701, which covers all the material anyways.</p>
<p>^ It’s certainly not easy. I found a recent interview on the Art of Problem Solving website that answers the question! You can find the full text here:
Source: [Math</a> Jams Transcripts](<a href=“Math Jams”>Math Jams)</p>
<p>The discussion included Matt McGann from MIT Admissions and Kiran Kedlaya, Associate Professor of Mathematics at MIT. Kedlaya’s research is in arithmetic algebraic geometry and algebraic number theory. Prof. Kedlaya is a former IMO medalist (several times), a Putnam winner (several times) and serves on the AoPS Foundation Board of Directors. (His home page is [Kiran</a> Kedlaya: Personal Home Page](<a href=“http://www.mit.edu/~kedlaya/]Kiran”>http://www.mit.edu/~kedlaya/)).</p>
<p>Here’s the relevant excerpt:</p>
<p>Question: Can freshman cross enroll in Harvard’s Math 55? </p>
<p>Kedlaya: Before answering, let me explain to everyone else that Harvard’s Math 55 is a fairly hard-core course for freshman, which (usually) covers multivariable calculus, linear algebra, and often some other topics the professor decided to include. MIT has no such course; our freshmen are advised simply to enter the math major at the appropriate course for their background… </p>
<p>… Just as MIT students can cross register for Harvard classes in general, they can technically cross register for Math 55, BUT: this requires permission from MIT which is almost never granted. As I said, we prefer our students to go directly into the appropriate undergraduate courses for them; in some cases, those turn out to be pretty advanced!</p>
<p>If I skip these subjects by studying them in High school, would I simply be able to skip these subjects?</p>
<p>At MIT you will need to somehow have credit for 18.01 and 18.02 no matter what as these are graduation requirements. If you are a math major, you will have to have credit for 18.03 and 18.06/18.700/18.701, but the math department may be flexible about these, I’m not sure. But other than that, in general, you can take any math class whenever you want, so yes you could just not take these classes and go into more advanced courses.</p>
<p>Also, it seems as if cross registration is not available to freshman, or early sophomores according to this - [MIT</a> SHASS: Undergraduate Studies - Special Programs - Harvard/MIT Cross-Registration Program](<a href=“http://shass.mit.edu/undergraduate/special/harvard]MIT”>http://shass.mit.edu/undergraduate/special/harvard).</p>
<p>Generally, as far as I can tell, (for a variety of excellent schools), kids who are past BC calc confer with the department head and will probably sit some tests and/or interview to be properly placed.</p>
<p>y would u wanna cross register for Math 55 anyway? I’m pretty sure MIT would offersequally mind boggling math course for a freshman.</p>
<p>I’m an alum of MIT, and I also attended Harvard for my Ph.D (majoring in math in both schools), so I know quite a bit about both systems. Here are my thoughts on Math 55, and MIT math courses.</p>
<p>It is not possible to exaggerate just how hard Math 55 is. When I was a student, the course amounted to four years of undergraduate mathematics crammed into one. I hear that they changed this in 2007 when they changed the name of the course, so that it is now “only” two years compressed into one, but it still is really intense.</p>
<p>The people who succeed in Math 55 tend to be IMO winners, veterans of summer math camps (Ross, PROMYS, MathCamp etc.), people who take the Putnam exam in high school, and so on. If you have not done these things, or worse, if you haven’t even heard of the things that I mentioned, then you are not ready for Math 55. Wanting to be challenged is NOT a good reason to take Math 55. You will be, literally, forced to keep up with the top ten math students in the country in order to make it through.</p>
<p>It’s possible that you <em>are</em> one of the top ten math students in the country this year, but I don’t consider that likely – if you were, you would know it already, and you would have asked this question somewhat differently. Unless you are in that really elite club, you won’t gain much from Math 55, even if you pass. It would be like trying to learn chess by playing exclusively against world champions. At best, you would learn how to minimize your losses, but you would never learn how to win (because you wouldn’t have the chance). I know people whose academic lives were destroyed by Math 55 because they lost so much confidence from being in that class. So please, for your own good, stay away from Math 55. It sounds like a good idea, but if you even have to ask, you’re not ready.</p>
<p>When I was a freshman at MIT, I didn’t know about Math 55, and I think I would have tried to take it had I known about it, but overall, I’m glad I didn’t. And remember this is coming from someone who later got a Ph.D in math from Harvard.</p>
<p>Changing subjects, here is what you should take. 18.014 is the advanced calculus class at MIT. Think of it as Math 55 for normal people. It is plenty advanced and challenging (although I never took it), and many math majors, even those who go on to careers in mathematics, enjoy the course greatly. If you have AP credit for 18.01 then it would partially overlap with 18.014 (there is a special rule for this situation – you get 9 units of credit for the AP exam), and that may be a reason not to take the class. But any student who is in it for the challenge and not the credit would be well served to consider 18.014.</p>
<p>The other reason to take 18.014 is because you’ll need it for 18.024, which is the advanced multivariable calculus class. There is a school-wide requirement for 18.02 credit, and this requirement is not satisfiable through AP exams. Unless you are really exceptional (more on this below), you will need to take some version of 18.02, and the most advanced version (18.024) is only offered in the spring, so you might as well take 18.014 in the fall.</p>
<p>If you are really exceptional then you can pass out of 18.02. The only way to do this is to take (and pass) the 18.02 advanced standing exam offered during orientation week. This is what I did. Are you confident that you can pass this exam easily? If so, read on. If not, stop right here, and don’t even consider any course beyond 18.014. (Math 55 would be absurd for someone who can’t pass the 18.02 exam.)</p>
<p>Assuming you enter MIT on registration day with credit for both 18.01 and 18.02, the usual options are, as mentioned, 18.03, 18.100B, and 18.700/701. If you already know differential equations (18.03) and linear algebra (18.700), then skip those classes and take the corresponding advanced standing exams (18.03 and 18.06). Unfortunately you can’t skip the exams since the credit for these classes are required for most majors. Again, the rule of thumb is, if you aren’t sure you’ll pass the exam, then just take the class. In my case, I took 18.03 and 18.100B on the advice of Prof. Munkres. In retrospect, I shouldn’t have taken 18.03, since I knew that stuff already, but I can’t say I regret the experience, since the professor that year was the late Gian-Carlo Rota, who is just a wonderful teacher. I recommend the 18.03/18.100B combination for any incoming student who passes out of 18.02 and isn’t sure what to take.</p>
<p>18.701 is the hardest class out of the bunch. It’s mainly intended for juniors and seniors. You can take it as a freshman if you have prior experience with rigorous proofs, and if you’re really passionate for and committed to math. I didn’t take 18.701 the first year, but I did take 18.702 (the follow-up class) in my first year, which is even harder, and requires 18.701 as a prerequisite. This brings me to another point about course selection – no one here takes the listed prerequisites seriously. The listed prerequisites for many courses are flat-out wrong, and in some cases it’s no big deal to take a class for which you don’t have the prereqs. Conversely, some classes require much more than the listed prereqs. The most notable example is 18.745/755, which list only 18.100/18.701 as prerequisites, but in reality also require 18.901, 18.950, and probably 18.712 and 18.721 as well.</p>
<p>I could write more but I guess this is already long enough. I do however want to mention the credit limit. Until you become a sophomore, you can only take 54-57 units (4.5-4.75 full classes) per term. If you are an exceptionally strong student, as I was, you will want to declare sophomore standing early, in order to avoid the credit limit. You’ll need a ton of extra credits for this (AP exams and advanced standing exams), and there’s a pretty serious drawback: sophomores are on letter grades, instead of the pass/fail system for freshmen. I didn’t care because I knew I would get all A’s (and I did). You might consider doing it too, if you are that strong. But even if you do all that, Math 55 is not for you, just as it was not suitable for me; one has to be of almost otherworldly calibre to even consider that class.</p>
<p>It sounds like the only people who do well in Math 55 are people who have seen significant chunks of it already.</p>
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<p>I heard that there was one student who learned integration by taking Math 55. I’m sure he had other factors going for him, but I thought that was kind of interesting.</p>
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<p>Also, this isn’t true anymore. Second semester freshman are now on ABC/NR, so in terms of grades, sophomore standing mostly hurts you if you think you may fail a class.</p>
<p>@Deejaiy – Great post.</p>
<p>I just want to point out also, that there are a lot of options for freshman year math classes, apart from what Deejaiy said, some of which might work better depending on your goals and abilities - for example, if you have credit for 18.01 (single-variable calc) you might want to consider taking 18.022, multivariable calc that is more theoretical than 18.02, but maybe not as much as 18.024. Or if you have credit for 18.02, 18.700 may be a better option than 18.100. But at this point, there isn’t one standard path you have to follow, there are literally dozens of different options out there.</p>
<p>Hi all,
Thank you DeeJay–I decided upon my path.</p>
<p>I’ve already taken Linear Algebra, so I should get credit for it (if not, I can ASE for it pretty easily); also, I have 18.01 credit. </p>
<p>So, I think I will take 18.701/ (8.02 or 8.01 depending on what I scored on my AP test)/Biology/ and a HASS first semester.</p>
<p>And I’m hoping for sophomore standing, so my second semester schedule would be:
18.702/18.03/Solid State Chem/HASS/some EECS class.</p>
<p>How does this sound?</p>
<p>I realized Math55 is probably not for me; though, I believe more than being an IMO gold medalist, the kids who did well were really good at math (USAMO qualifiers at least) and some of the most studious students in the country, from what students have told me.</p>
<p>That looks fine, especially since you already have linear algebra experience. I wouldn’t bother with an ASE for 18.06 if you’re going to take 18.701, unless you need the credits, though you should get credit for 18.02 somehow since it’s a GIR. You might want to consider taking 18.034 instead of 18.03, or 18.100B/C depending on your interests in math.</p>
<p>Take 18.701-18.702. It’s one of those math classes that are very challenging and interesting, yet have very little prerequisites (basic knowledge of linear algebra and proof writing helps). And the book they use is amazing.</p>
<p>From what I understand, the intensity of the math 55 experience stems from the amount of material they try to cover. I’ve seen their syllabus before, and it seems like the 2 math 55 classes would be an equivalent of
18.701/18.702 + 18.100B/18.901 together.</p>