<p>Guns up. My daughter also wanted to be an engineering major. She never even took calculus in high school and somehow managed to get her bachelors degree in engineering (with a double major in biology). We actually refused the offer to accelerate her in math after 7th grade. My DH is an engineer…and he felt very strongly about having a good math foundation. </p>
<p>Fast forward…my daughter has that engineering degree and has NO interest in pursuing a career in engineering. She completed the major because she started the major…and did well. But she really doesn’t see herself as a practicing engineer (and she grew up around engineers).</p>
<p>What I’m trying to say…your preteen daughter thinks she might want to major in engineering. Maybe she will, and maybe she won’t…when the time comes. But regardless, she can major in engineering without math acceleration. Now, if she WANTS to do this…that’s another thing. But honestly…not necessary.</p>
<p>Gunsup - it doesn’t have to be all or nothing! Not accelerating a child that really needs it can be as damaging as pushing a child that can’t handle it. Just because Calculus isn’t usually taught before 12th grade (or college), and Algebra before 7/8th grade in this country doesn’t mean that kids younger than that are too immature to learn it. Many children in other countries are exposed to higher math much earlier than in the US and they are not harmed. It’s mostly just a culturall thing. Follow the needs of your child and you can’t go wrong. And don’t get trapped into the “if she takes X math now then what will she do in 5 years” type of thinking. There are many options for advanced math, and any other courses, if you think outside the box.</p>
<p>OP, I am glad you are seeing the wisdom in not pushing. </p>
<p>When you think of the math sequence, you may be erroneously thinking that students must take Calculus AB prior to taking BC. Not true. The strong students go directly into BC from pre-calculus/Math Analysis. </p>
<p>At our school, the sequence was 7th - pre-Algebra, 8th - Honors Algebra, 9th - Geometry Honors, 10th, Algebra2/Trig Honors, 11th - Math Analysis, 12 - AP Calculus AB or BC. </p>
<p>Students routinely get accepted into highly selective schools on this schedule. </p>
<p>Don’t worry, you’re not depriving your daughter of opportunities by not pushing her.</p>
<p>It can be difficult as a parent to judge the right math placement. If you really think she won’t get anything out of the 6th grade math program I would see if she can place out of it, assuming that this is something she would like to do. Some kids really don’t like the idea of being in class with older kids. What you are proposing is actually the usual math program for the top half or so of student in our school system. That said, many of those students later flounder. You need to keep in mind that once you start the algebra track the difficulty keeps ramping up. On the other hand, if your child is consistently at the top of her class and has been telling you for years that math is easy, it could be a good idea to give her a little more challenge. I assume you have some standardized test scores, grades and teacher comments, so you should have a pretty good idea how strong a student she is. </p>
<p>Both of my kids were grade level accelerated in math and it was the right choice for them even though it also led to various problems. We didn’t do any math review or anything over the summer.</p>
<p>What does your daughter say about all this? Does she want to work harder in math or would she rather spend her time doing other things? If I were you, I’d discuss this with her. If she seems interested, give her some tests of what she should have mastered and see if she knows it really well.</p>
<p>As far as depriving of opportunities, if she finished the math earlier, she may be able to do more advanced math in high school or else she could use the time to pursue other interests. </p>
<p>I didn’t push for accelerated math, my daughter always enjoyed her math classes, it’s very relaxing for her, she’s always top 4 students in her classes. It’s much better for her teacher to write her letter of recommendation for college. This is the kid that I never had to remind about homework and help with any homework. No tutoring for summer or regular school day. It’s much better confidence builder for her.</p>
<p>I totally agree with turtletime: I have seen kids who breezed through the earlier levels of math, absolutely hit a wall when they got to algebra. It really does requires a whole higher level of reasoning than any math they’ve done up till then. Now, obviously there are math-minded kids who breeze through algebra as well, but I’m not sure you can tell whether you’ve got one of those until the time comes. </p>
<p>The option you mention of taking Geometry and Algebra II during freshman year is what both of my kids did, and that’s what I’d recommend. I think a kid who handles Algebra I fine in 8th grade is ready for that accelerated class. Mind you, it is a lot of work since you’re cramming 2 years into one, but it’s a better option than springing algebra on her too young. Although you may end up with this situation: </p>
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<p>This is my D1 as well. Luckily, her high school offers AP Statistics as well as higher-level calc. She may not actually like statistics any more than she likes calculus, but since she’s thinking of majoring in sociology, if she hates statistics it’s just as well for her to find that out now so she can switch to anthropology or history or something that has no quantitative element at all. :)</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds more math-y since she loves robotics and computers, so she will probably be fine taking 2 years of calculus. </p>
<p>“Hmmmm, my kids have never reviewed math during the summer. Summer is for fun and doing whatever they want. At 11, spending time doing math is not their idea of fun.”</p>
<p>My daughter had a summer math packet assigned by her school every year - so she was required to review math during the summer. </p>
<p>Another place to possibly do compaction (again, if it is the kid who is asking to accelerate) is to study precalculus (sometimes called Math Analysis) along with Alg II/Trig. You’d need to find out how much of trig is covered in your school’s Alg II class. S17’s Alg II class covered trig including the trig identities, his physics class covered the parts of vector arithmetic covered in precalc, he had used matrices for his own computer programming interests, and he’d seen series and sums in his math circle. So, there wasn’t much left in precalc for him to go over in order to test out of it. </p>
<p>This would not be the case at many schools where Trig is not covered well until precalc.</p>
<p>Geometry and Alg II are very different subjects, so doing both in one year would seem difficult to me. Also, until you get to Geometry, you don’t really know whether you will find it easy, since it is quite different from the other math kids have done up until that point.</p>
<p>Finally, many school districts are moving from the Alg I/Geom/Alg II sequence to an “Integrated Math” sequence, partially because that seems to be consistent with some of mathematical practices in the Common Core State Standards. And, schools in California, in particular, are making Alg I less available to 8th graders because of Common Core, when it used to be that about 50% of kids took Alg I in 8th grade and about 5% took Alg I in 7th grade.</p>
<p>Pre-Common-Core, California had a goal to get every 8th grader into algebra 1. However, poor preparation in K-7 math meant that this was a pipedream, while many inappropriately accelerated 8th graders struggled or failed in algebra 1.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus Yes, that plan was not good for many students. In the last year of that plan, 67% of CA kids took Alg I in 7th or 8th grade and only 36% of kids overall (55% of those who took algebra in 7th/8th) tested proficient. That resulted in a lot of kids who “failed” at math they really shouldn’t have taken.</p>
<p>I suspect the new plan will be a problem (at the high end) for only about 4-5% of kids–those who would have taken and passed AlgI/Geom/AlgII in 7, 8, and 9. It would be nice if each kid could take the math that is appropriate to their readiness. I also agree with @dustypig who referenced the basic developmental issue of being ready for more abstract math, which happens at different ages and is not necessarily dependent on K-7 preparation.</p>
Or maybe you just need to find a school system that teaches BC Calc in one year and doesn’t make you take AB first. </p>
<p>My oldest skipped 6th grade math. I asked that he take their end of the year exam to prove he knew the material. I’d already examined the textbooks and the truth is the 6th and 7th grade textbooks were almost identical, if I had it to do again, I might insist he skip 7th grade as well. As it is at least he had a few other double accelerated kids to carpool with since in 8th grade the kids had to take Geometry at the high school. </p>
<p>It’s really important to do what’s right for each kid. It has to be what they want. Both of mine were radically accelerated in math (among other topics). It was what they craved. I couldn’t have stopped them. One lost out on a year or two of math because nobody was giving him anything in his school placements, but he got there eventually. By the time the older one got to college, he had taken BC Calc as a sophomore, Calc III and Diff EQ as a junior (our public high school offers these as semester classes), self-studied AP Stats and took that test, AP Micro (freshman year of high school), AP Macro (sophomore year), three Rutgers math classes and one philosophy class during the summer prior to senior year and senior year. There is no running out of math. There is always more somewhere. He’s a very happy math and philosophy major. He had unusual math maturity at a very young age. Not everyone is ready for the math he took at the age he took it. He was also double grade skipped, so he took those classes quite young. He took advantage of summer math programs, various math competitions, math circles, AoPs courses, etc.</p>
<p>I guess my son got lucky. He never communicated being bored in math to me, but his MS math teacher must have noticed. He gave my son books and let him advance on his own. The same thing happened when he started HS. After a month, they gave him a test and let him move up. </p>
<p>There is a huge variation in algebra readiness among kids at this age. By looking at how my kids were doing, seeing how they handled more difficult problems, and giving them a pre-algebra test, I think I was able to get them placed appropriately. There is a lot of repetition in middle school pre-pre algebra and pre-algebra math. I looked at a series of books used by our schools and about 3/4 of the material was the same stuff from one year to the next. There are years of tippy-toeing up to the idea of variables. If your kid finds this intuitive, it’s a lot of wasted instruction. </p>
<p>One of my kids used a 7th grade text to cover all of middle school math and then moved on to algebra 1. She found algebra easy, somewhat boringly repetitive actually, and also sailed through geometry the following year. I have no concerns about her ability to handle higher level math when she gets to it. This is a kid who is very good at math but not especially interested in it and for her the benefits are to save her some years of classroom boredom and drudgery and allow her more time to pursue her interests while still completing calculus in high school. I know she could have started it all a year earlier but considering she wasn’t terribly interested I didn’t want to put her in the position of having to work hard at math. I guess what I am saying is that appropriate placement/acceleration isn’t a waste even for talented kids who aren’t dying to do math, but such kids would need to want the acceleration, be willing to live with the scheduling issues and the age difference issues for a benefit they value (whether that is fewer boring math classes or ability to take more electives later on), and also not be pushed so far ahead that math becomes something they have to work really hard at. </p>
<p>All that said, if the OP is finding it beneficial to work on math that was covered during the school year over the summer, I would question whether there is anything wrong with the OP’s child’s math placement and whether any acceleration is needed.</p>
<p>I am a single mom who dropped out of high school. I downloaded some math from the elementary school’s site for kids that did not pass the state standardize test. Not that my kid needed help. I just didn’t feel I could teach her any new concepts and was thinking that at least she would be fresh and ready to go once 6th grade starts. I ordered the Life of Fred books because my friend (who home schools) said they were great and the books with teach my child. Honestly I do know what I am doing. I just want me kid to soar and not follow my path. She is a great kid and I feel so blessed to be her mom. She is smart but certainly no genius She has always been known as the “reader girl” at school. But lately she is doing less reading and more You Tubing. She follows these girls on You tube that play games like Mind Craft and narrate while they are doing it. Right now that is her favorite activity. </p>
<p>I appreciate all of ya’ll comments. I am reading all of them. Thank You</p>
<p>See if you can get her involved in First Lego League (FLL) robotics in middle school. It sounds like she would enjoy that. And talk to the school about math placement. Some schools will be very supportive of acceleration. Others won’t. If the school is supportive and if they also feel she would benefit, you could try the pre-algebra in 6th grade. If she doesn’t find it easy and you feel it was a mistake, she could repeat it in 7th grade with her grade-mates.</p>
<p>It can be hard to advise over the internet because there is everything on the spectrum out there from extraordinary kids who are absolutely dying of boredom in an unsupportive school system to kids with pushy parents who believe or mistakenly insist that their child be a genius. </p>
<p>Kids who are really smart in math like NJCornellMom’s son, they usually like to do summer programs in math. D2 knew such kid and he is a Stanford. My kid is not in that category. </p>