Math acceleration... on track to run out of math courses in H.S.

<p>Addenda. btw- that Honors physics course required calculus so you know that 14 year old was taking at least first semester calculus by then. For son’s educational opportunities Madison would have had much better opportunities. But, parents needed to be where the jobs for them were… You are lucky the internet has matured so much since our son’s school years. Widens the options so much.</p>

<p>It’s pretty common for high school students to go to some local college to take Calc 3, DiffEq, and Linear Algebra. As for your son, he might need another option after that. After those he may know a bit better where he wants to go with his math (Calc 3, DiffEq, and Linear Algebra pretty much completes the prerequisite maths for most majors), but some common options might be Real Analysis, Combinatorics, or Abstract Algebra. He doesn’t need to figure it out now, when senior year comes he’ll have a much better idea. </p>

<p>My S was in a similar situation. Finished first year of college calc in 8th grade through an accelerated math program at the University of Minnesota. (He was in a cadre of such kids–it’s a program that’s been running for 30 years here in the Twin Cities.) Finished with accelerated program by end of his sophomore year (linear algebra, multivariable, differential equations–the whole calc sequence at the U). Our high school’s only offering after B/C Calc was linear algebra.</p>

<p>S continued with math at the university, ending up taking combinatorics and cryptology his junior and senior year through dual-enrollment. I was also concerned that he continue to take math and not let a gap of even a year occur because I knew from personal experience how easy it is to get rusty with upper-level concepts if you don’t get to use them. S didn’t feel math competitions–which he enjoyed–helped him retain his calc. AP Stats is a joke–considered quite easy and several steps down from calc. S searched for and used a Coursera course that required advanced calc to review his calc last summer, which he thought was getting rusty when he switched from continuous math (calc) to discreet math (combinatorics and cryptology). </p>

<p>I recommend doing everything possible to make sure your son continues to progress in math. My stepdaughter also accelerated her math–doing linear algebra as a high school senior, but chose a science route in college. When she had to do some higher level math in late undergrad and grad courses, she felt stressed and behind because so much time had transpired. Online courses sound like your best options, given your remote location. Good luck!</p>

<p>My 16 yo is accelerated in math as well, though not quite as far ahead as your son. She did AP Calc AB sophomore year (we made the decision to not push ahead to Calc BC) and then did Calc 2 at the local university over the summer. We ARE taking a one semester math break now to focus on SAT/PSAT, but will resume math next semester with Calc 3 at the university. I would keep up the math through high school if possible, perhaps doing dual enrollment.</p>

<p>One caution: when it comes to PSAT time (assuming you are interested in National Merit), make sure your son reviews lower level math. Alg 2 will be SO far behind him by junior year. My daughter actually found that to be a problem when she took the PSAT soph year, and her math score dropped a bit after a year away from Alg 2.</p>

<p>how about take Calc AB, Calc BC, then Statistics?</p>

<p>Why would a gifted math student slow down Calculus by stretching it out for two years? In our school all the strong students go straight from pre-Calc to BC. </p>

<p>My oldest did “advanced calculus” (equivalent to AB with quite a bit of BC in there too) his freshman year. He took the AB calc AP exam that spring as well as the SAT math 2 exam. </p>

<p>Since he didn’t have any plans for a job that summer, he ended up taking Calc 2 at the local state university. In hindsight that was likely unnecessary but it did get him out of bed before noon! He then took Calc 3 and differential Eq his sophomore year at the local private LAC (because they have a program for high schoolers to take a regular college class each semester at a very small cost.) </p>

<p>And because he was able to fit those classes in before the start of his school day, he had an available free period all three quarters last year, which he filled with a teacher assistant option. Basically he was paired with either the pre-calc or calc teacher and was able to teach a class about once a week (more when the teachers had subs). </p>

<p>That’s transitioned into a nice tutoring gig this year. He volunteers during school and has a few students (from other nearby districts) that he tutors after school for $. He also helps the occasional student prep for an exam for free on the weekends (in-district kids). He’s mostly tutoring alg 2 and geo with some occasional calc.</p>

<p>That’s helped keep his math skills up for the PSAT, SAT and ACT that he takes this year as a junior. (Unfortunately, his college math class is scheduled during his lunch hour this year, so he doesn’t have a free period to fill.)</p>

<p>Our school allows a couple of kids each year to teach an elective class under the supervision of a teacher. He’s hoping to run a class his senior year that will serve as preparation for the BC calc exam (which he took the spring of his sophomore year.)</p>

<p>No math department in the world is going to make a student re-learn material that he has mastered just because he learned it at a community college. The university may not award credit towards graduation for it, but if he has mastered the material he will get placed in appropriate classes.</p>

<p>Now, whether he really masters the material or not depends to some extent on the community college and its courses, but only to some extent. If he is a motivated, talented math student, he should be able to get someone to teach him what he needs to know. I am no expert on math education, but one of your goals should probably be to get him comfortable with proof-based learning, something that most high-school curriculums barely address, even in their BC Calculus classes. If he isn’t getting that in community college classes, he should find some way to learn how to do and to use proofs. That, not the specific content of the courses, is what’s most valuable, and what most requires a teacher/guide and regular feedback.</p>

<p>(Agree with others that two-year math gap is a terrible idea, and that AP Stats in 10th grade is probably a waste of time for the OP’s kid. A more sophisticated statistics class would not be a waste of time.)</p>

<p>@JHS, proof-based is taught through AoPS (WOOT is great!), Math Circles, and at Ross/PROXYMA/Hampshire/etc. summer programs. I have not seen it as part of any HS or lower division math regular curriculum (except the basics in Geometry).</p>

<p>In Illinois, many there are a number of high schools that have an advanced math track, starting in junior high, with HS juniors taking AP Calc BC and then enrolling in Univ of IL Urbana-Champaign (UIUC) NetMath for higher level math courses as seniors, if they get a 5 on the AP Calc BC test.</p>

<p><a href=“https://netmath.illinois.edu/”>https://netmath.illinois.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>At my son’s HS (enrollment ~2500 students) the UIUC NetMath class is guided by a HS math teacher and they spend a period in HS working on the distance learning class. Although there were at least 20 HS students taking Multi-variable Calculus, the HS teacher’s union would not allow a college professor to come on campus to teach a math class at the HS and none of the HS math teachers were accredited to teach the course for college credit.</p>

<p>It worked out quite well and many of the HS students ended up attending the UIUC engineering school, so the class is already on their transcript and they start with a college GPA. When my son and I attended UIUC engineering open house, we sat in on a UIUC Math 241 class and he thought the Netmath class had better examples for the topic of the day.</p>

Hello! As a 2 year homeschooler attending a co-op and a 4 year university for dual enrollment classes junior and senior year, I only sent my colleges my schedule, course descriptions, text books used, and teacher’s credentials. Should I include more things like syllabi and the content covered?
(My parents knew nothing about homeschooling, do is appreciate any advice from you!) @sbjdorlo‌

You should talk to the HS guidance department and math department head as soon as possible to find out their plan for your son and any others. Perhaps they would be willing to have a linear algebra class when he is a senior that would include both junior and seniors and thus capture the 10 kids needed.

In my area, CC would not be an option because the level would be lower than the Calc BC at the high school. However, a couple of kids took math at colleges during their junior and senior years and could drive themselves. You may also want to ask a general question at some colleges of interest as to how they would look at your son maxing out on math at grade 10.

With the options of online classes through CTY at Hopkins or similar programs, it may be tough to argue that there was no way for him to take either Calc 3 or linear algebra as a junior or senior.

What about AP Comp Science? That might be a good course for him in place of math one year.

@jadeariane, are you saying you’re a senior this year that already applied to colleges? And are you saying you were in a B&M (brick and mortar) school for 9th and 10th grade, but switched to homeschool/dual-enrollment in 11th and 12th? I think I need to understand your sitation better. If you’ve already applied to colleges, at this point, there is nothing more you can do since most are giving decisions within the month.

Please feel free to clarify or PM me.

If no one else has mentioned it, please look into the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth Math programs. Assuming your son has tested for Talent Search, he will easily qualify. DD has done other online math programs and this one has the best access to instructors and seems to really know how to do the online thing. Worked with EPGY previously and was not the best experience. A bit pricey, but they do have scholarships.

My son took Honors Geometry via CTY the summer after 8th grade so that he could enroll in Alg 2 in 9th grade. Since he completed the course during the eight or nine week summer break, the tuition was lower. I cannot recall the details, but I believe they offered three month, six month and full year rates. I am not advocating taking a year of math in eight weeks, but he was determined.

My son had not participated in Talent Search but CTY allowed use of his Connecticut standardized testing results in order to enroll in one course. They would not have allowed him to take additional courses, so this is not a long term solution if you need more than one course, but if only looking for one, see if they will waive the testing requirement.

I’m new to this forum, so if it’s bad etiquette to post to an old thread, please excuse. I’m curious to hear the follow up (what you decided to do) for the situation, and to offer a new perspective. Our daughter was advanced in math early (5th grade) at our public school, and we were faced with a similar set of options. In the end, we opted to put her in a private girls’ school for middle school, for a variety of reasons, but there is always the possibility that she will have to return to public for high school (because the private school is SO expensive). I am a professor (English, not math) at our local community college–the one she would be sent to in her junior year if she returns to public. I can tell you there is absolutely no way I would let my daughter take courses at my CC campus at that age. Some of the profs are great (and some are not–I know bc it’s my job to evaluate our adjunct faculty), but I wouldn’t want her around the other students, some of whom are dangerous. I have had high schoolers in my own classes, too, and I don’t think that socially it’s a good fit. I would also say this: while online learning might not be good for your son now, I wouldn’t totally rule it out in the future, as he matures, as the technology gets better, and as he becomes more expert in the discipline. Many people think online ed is good for basic courses, but I see it precisely the opposite. Online is great for people who already have some basis in the fundamentals of a subject–and have the motivation and time management skills to succeed. Hope things are working out for your son!

My son is definitely not as advanced as yours, He he pre algebra 6th, Algebra 7th, Geometry 8th, Algebra 2 9th, Pre Calc in 10th, this year 11th he had to fill the gap with Prob/Stats which he hated as it was not “real” math to him and is now in Calculus this semester. Next year the counselor is forcing him to take AP CALC AB/BC, because that is the highest math offered. I think it is silly. We opted not to take AP for the pure fact that this is High School not college. I personally believe that and online course or no course in the senior year allowing your kid to explore outside things from the “track” may actually be more beneficial, but I guess I am old fashioned that way. Good luck but remember they have only 18 years to be a “kid” and way more than that to be a grown up.

What a confusing post, SAHMof2!

I would urge you to reconsider re AP Calculus (and if you look things up among my thousands of posts, you would see that in general I am not such a fan of calculus). AP Calculus is absolutely a high school course, but it’s a high school course that (a) students interested in math tend to love, and (b) opens up lots of doors for them when they get to college. Of course, it’s possible to take calculus for the first time in college. At my kids’ very math-y college, where everyone was essentially required to take calculus, the vast majority of kids who had taken AP Calculus (and no higher math beyond that) repeated calculus. But they repeated it in a different course from those who had never taken it, and they got much farther and deeper into math their first year in college than kids who had not taken AP Calculus. In fields where advanced math is a plus, it’s very hard to catch up in a mere four years if you did not begin calculus in high school.

There’s an even more compelling reason to take AP Calculus, though: If your son is a strong math student, that’s where the other strong math students will be. And when he gets to college, the other strong math students will be in classes he won’t be ready for yet. The older he gets, the more he will be learning from his peers rather than his teachers. If you put him into situations where his classmates are not like him in terms of math interest and ability, you run the risk of harming his development, not only in math but also in the many fields where math is key.

Just a quick follow-up for any interested readers:

As I briefly discussed, there were some problems with his first semester of pre-calc this year. A distance learning class was basically a disaster, and when we shifted him about 6 weeks in to the high school for this class (he’s still at the middle school for other classes), there were some teething problems. First semester he only got a B+ in pre-calc. Now about half-way through 2nd semester, he’s tracking for an A this semester, and I think things are fairly under control.

We had a bit of an issue in January as he was signing up for next year’s classes. The math teacher recommended that he take Calc AB rather than BC, in large part I think because of that B+ first semester. I tried to research it a bit and we ultimately made the decision to sign him up for BC, and the school didn’t push back (fortunately - they HAVE pushed back on other issues). Hopefully he can handle that pace in 9th grade. He may (not sure) that he will also be re-united with 2 other current 8th/rising 9th graders (twins) who stuck with the distance learning class and should also be in Calc next year (their dad is a math professor and so has presumably been able to tutor them and overcome the weaknesses of the distance learning class).

Still not sure on the long term path - Calc 9th, Stat 10th, then maybe just extra science and/or programming classes in 11th and 12th grades. Because he’s taking both band and a language next year, he has little schedule flexibility (7 class schedule). If he stays with band, then “finishing” math in 10th grade would give him more slots for other stuff beyond then.

Also, the idea of being a math tutor as some kind of independent study thing in 11th and/or 12th grade is intriguing. I think he would like this and it would fit his personality. He probably needs a bit more maturity than he has now, but he’s shown pretty strong growth in that category over the last year or so.