Math acceleration... on track to run out of math courses in H.S.

If he has a strong interest in math, you should investigate what options there are for him to take more advanced math at a local college. Typical college sophomore level math would be multivariable calculus, linear algebra, differential equations, and discrete math. If offered, calculus-based probability and statistics may be more interesting to him than non-calculus-based AP statistics.

This is the type of thing that would get your son noticed by admissions officers at elite schools. It sounds like he has a couple of years to plan something out for this, but a student who creates a structured tutoring program for his peers will stand out. Remember that lots of HS kids struggle with HS math or HS physics, as well as the math needed for chem, etc. Ttutoring other students will help keep the material fresh for him, which will be needed for the PSAT/SAT and SAT subject tests. But just as important is that it will be very helpful to other students, and your son will learn important life skills along the way. Don’t be too hard on your son for needing to gain some maturity - what middle school kid doesn’t need that?

Reading this thread can feel a bit like looking at the end of a train speeding by. I would have considered my son to be accelerated in math, but after reading here obviously not as much as others. He took Algebra I and Geometry for high school credit in middle school. Now he is a freshman taking an honors Algebra II class. Average high school, I can pretty confidently say he is the top math student in his class of 378. His grades in Algebra II each grade period have been essentially 100% (like every other class). I see no struggle at all, very little homework. He has always been a top 1% scorer on standardized tests. I did have to speak up a little bit and ask for him to be allowed to start in an Honors Bio class instead of an Honors Integrated Science class that every other freshman in the class started in this year. I did that so that he could jump on the science APs and get them all in before he graduates. In math I didn’t ask for further acceleration, because if he follows the progression he will reach AP Cal BC his senior year. Sophomore year will be Precalculus, Honors Chemistry, and AP Physics. Junior and senior year will be AP Calculus AB & BC, AP Bio and AP Chem. Potentially also AP Statistics and Environmental Science.

I have read this trying to decide if I have my head stuck in the sand or if this is a good example of elite institution cognitive disorder. I do find it very impressive when I learn of these examples of kids who are doing this kind of acceleration in math. I have no idea if my own son would ever have been meant for it or could have handled it. I could only say that if they had chosen a kid from our area to try it, in my son’s class it would be him. Should I have pushed for that?

Where I have pause on the subject, where I am torn I guess you would say, is when I read of B+ grades and 3s on AP exams. I am not being a hater here, I am just asking the question for my own benefit and trying to inform myself. It is still very impressive, but obviously in these situations the kid is in the class and handling it, but he isn’t at the top of the class pulling everyone else forward. Obviously there is content here that hasn’t been entirely mastered. Don’t half of the kids who take the AP Cal BC exam score a 5? Two thirds score a 4 or better? If you are not there, why would you presume that you should continue to leapfrog ahead? Shouldn’t you slow down enough to thoroughly master the material before you move on?

Are all of these kids that are doing this kind of acceleration really the next John Nash, or are they actually mere mortals like the rest of us who possess some math talent? If the latter, what really serves them best? How do we know the difference? These are the questions I have. I don’t know the answers.

@MWDadOf3, I think your son will likely want to continue on in math after he runs out of math at his high school, but you don’t need to solve that problem now. Things can change. By the time my son became a senior, his high school had decided to offer a post-calculus math class which they never had before. They had a critical mass that year that made it feasible and a math teacher who wanted to teach them.

@SAHMof2, I remain baffled why you want to keep your son out of the next logical step in the math sequence. Thousands (probably millions) of kids have been taking calculus (AP or not) in high school with no issues. I took AP Calculus BC back in 1973 - it was not unusual.

@LOUKYDAD‌ even with hindsight one doesn’t always know what the best decisions would have been. I think my older son could have been even more accelerated than he was, but it was like pulling teeth to get the middle school to even consider letting him be accelerated at all. Eventually there were three of accelerated in middle school and in 8th grade we had to carpool them to the high school for math. The high school was much more easy going and those three were eventually joined by kids who accelerated by pursuing math in the summer. I can’t speak for the others, but my kid got a 5 on the AP no problem. I think you can probably look to the ACM, AIME type contests, or getting involved in Math Circles or the Art of Problem Solving stuff to judge whether your kid is the next John Nash. My kid was very good at math, but thought computer programming was more interesting so he was happy to spend all his free time teaching himself Linux instead of going faster or in more depth in math.

^^^ Thanks mathmom for your perspective. That even with hindsight it is hard to know - I really liked how you put that.

I have read elsewhere and felt comforted by the concept that every kid is evaluated in the context of their own high school. Reading this thread along with others, including the threads where the kids who were accepted post their acceptances along with their “resume”, makes me question whether that is really the reality.

Are kids being carted all over the city for the sake of learning and challenging one’s self to master new subjects, or is it more about getting an “edge”? In the end I guess one can only answer that question for one’s self. It isn’t really for us to question why anyone else does what they do.

@LOUKYDAD. Some of us were lucky enough to have accelerated programs that were convenient and available. We live in Minneapolis and have the University of Minnesota Talented Youth in Math Program, which many Minneapolis and suburban Minneapolis kids take part in. Further up the thread, someone talked about a similar program at Johns Hopkins. Our kids aren’t John Nashes, they’re just good at math and enjoy it. What’s sad is that many kids could accelerate as my S did–he had taken the U’s entire calc curriculum, plus combinatorics and cryptology by the time he graduated–if they had access to programs. The courses were about $1500 a year, subsidized by the state. We partook in the program because S had an interest and we wanted him to be with other kids who found math fascinating.

Our schools are a little funky. They’re quite open to math acceleration, and our son is not the only one (there’s a kid a grade ahead of our son, in 9th, who knocked off Calc in 8th grade and apparently got a 5 on the BC test).

Now, in SCIENCE on the other hand (which our son likes more than math), we have been unable to get him skipped, despite some pretty good reasons, and despite the deep offerings available at the high school.

dec51995 - thanks for sharing. I read a little about UMTYMP online. It sounds like a wonderful program. I wish we had something like it in our area.

I guess I have seen the same trend here. They allow kids in our area to take Algebra I and Geometry in middle school, along with Spanish I, but they don’t do anything similar in science. In fact, it surprised me given the trend of acceleration that things have seemed to go backwards in science. I remember starting in Biology my freshman year of high school, nearly everyone did. In my son’s high school, and I think this is common in KY, freshman start in what is called Integrated Science before moving to Biology sophomore year, and choice of Chemistry or Physics after that. I have gathered in KY it is about state standards and the pre-college curriculum for the public colleges here. They require a course in life science (Biology), a course in physical science (Chemistry or Physics), and an earth/space science course (which is apparently covered along with the other areas in the Integrated Science course).

I couldn’t stand to see my kid bored to tears in another year of Integrated Science. I pushed a little, and they accommodated him by allowing him to start in an Honors Bio class with the sophomores. It has been one of his favorite classes. Now he will be in position to take a science AP course (Bio, Chem & Physics) each of the next three years, along with other science requirements and electives if he wants to. Like your son he is also interested in science. I like the idea of him taking each science AP mainly to identify which, if any, he would like to pursue in more depth later on. This would in turn inform his college search process and help him find a better fit.

I guess these are all really first world problems, huh? I will give my son’s school credit. I feel like they are trying to be as accommodating and make a path for him. One triumph I had this year was when I asked his math teacher about the AIME competitions. His school had never participated in the past. I don’t know of any school in the area that does. (This is KY after all, competition means basketball around here, not math!) His veteran math teacher had never heard of the competition, which surprised me a bit. To her credit though, she wasted no time at all. In less than a week she had a proposal written up and approved by the math department head and the costs in next year’s budget. It feels a little strange to be the first parent advocating for things like this, but it is great when you do and you find the school wants to go above and beyond to give the kids some of these opportunities.

Best of luck to your son.

Take nothing or take a college class while in HS. Not sure I understand the issue.

My D. did not take stats in HS, it is an easy A in college. She focused on getting rid of hard classes in HS, so that she would not damage her collge GPA by taking them in college. In her case it happened to be History.

Our middle school offers high school biology to a sizable portion of the kids. They take the Regent’s Test and do very well. That means it’s easy for most STEM oriented kids to get at least two AP sciences without doubling up (and back in the days of Physics B three AP sciences, even if the physics was pretty useless!)

What scores does one need to qualify for John Hopkins CTY online programme?

Back in the dark ages when I went to school, they allowed one student to take Calc.2. and 3 through independent study under the guiadance.of the Calc teacher. He would sit with us in regular Calc during this time.

I think it is pretty obvious … do you have a college closely? Typically, HS helps to arrange classes for an advanced kid in college.

If not, I’ll strongly advice Stanford Online HS. You can take it in addition to your HS. Good math curriculum. Proctored exams. Expansive, but they offer plenty of tuition help. WASC accredited. Accepted by most colleges.

Congrats to your son!

Where we live, the top STEM students take Dual enrollment Calc III senior year via computer with a local college. If he is really that strong in math, APStats is going to bore him. My daughter is taking Stats and Calc BC this year and she says the Stats is just repetitive without a lot of learning. As noted above you are going to need to find a way to enroll him in college courses. Here in Illinois we have the Illinois Math and Science academy (IMSA) which is a public, residential high school for exceptional STEM students from sophomore year on. Kids like your son excel at places le this. Other states may have similar programs. You are going to have to advocate on behalf of your son for whatever advanced program you deem appropriate. Unfortunately, exceptional students like this sometimes are not given appropriate opportunities almost in the same manner special needs kids face at the other end of the spectrum. The kids who seek out opportunities like attending college while in high school are the ones who get into MIT. Intellectual curiosity and academic rigor

I have known kids several years ahead and heard stories of others. It is problematic. Try to keep the experience rewarding. This means your son should enjoy it.

The best thing he could do is join his high school’s math team when he starts high school next year. The coach could probably give him some old exams now to tide him over until then. He will find them challenging. Hopefully, he enjoys them too. Further, most kids who do well on these tests have started early too.

Maybe give online classes another look? Albert Strang’s Linear Algebra class is free and great: http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/18-06-linear-algebra-spring-2010/.

I would not push the county college route as it is not geared to him. State U could be different. Tutoring is hit or miss. If either of these work for him, good for you.

It may be a good idea to take the SAT II Math 2 next year. Calculus is beyond the scope of this test, so it actually makes it harder to wait. Juniors and seniors are quite busy. It is helpful to be done with it and it is a very easy test.

The noble laureate Feynman wrote in one of his autobiographies, that he was a year ahead in calc so he read an old text book senior year. He learned techniques that he found helpful in his future career. So simply reading the text book can work.