One issue with math classes is that there is a lot of repetition. Compare textbooks for Algebra 2 and Pre-Calculus, and you’ll see a lot of overlap. Do the same thing for middle school math, and you’ll have have a hard time finding any differences. So someone who understands things on the first go will get very bored, and that’s how I was learning the same things in 10th grade as I was in 6th grade, even within the same school system.
A few of the strongest students in math (perhaps one every few years) started algebra 1 in 7th grade (+2 sequence):
7th grade: algebra 1
8th grade: geometry
9th grade: algebra 2
10th grade: precalculus / trigonometry
11th grade: calculus BC
In my older one’s HS class of about 200, 50-ish students took BC in 11th grade and while we’re in the bay area, that’s just one high school. There were about 4-5 that took BC in tenth grade. And a few of these kids won’t be going into STEM so it’s not like math is their strongest subject.
Anyway the broader question that’s being asked by the OP I think is how will not taking Calculus in 12th or even 11th grade impact his or her kid in the college application process. The top schools would want Calculus even for non-STEM, stats and the other courses won’t tilt the app one way or the other.
Very few US universities explicitly state that calculus is required or expected for frosh applicants.
ok, go through checking his hw today. He is doing geometry. Though problems seem pretty easy. Does that mean he would take algebra 2 in 9th grade, next year?
Talked to my relative back in vn, the 9th graders are taking pre-calculus. 10th grader/Cal 1, 11th grader/Cal 2, and 12th grader/Cal 3. The math learning in schools is different from both countries. Here, we have the options. In other, it’s requirement/standard. Students don’t have a choice. I don’t think that’s good because there are majors not required Calculus. Why waste time. Oh, and HS is starts from 10th grade, not 9th like here in US.
I already made an appointment to talk with his counselor this Friday.
If he is in geometry in 8th grade and will be in algebra 2 in 9th grade, he is in the +2 track, generally for the best students in math. He will be able to take calculus in 11th grade when following the normal progression of math courses. Do not worry about him being “behind”.
I like @ucbalumnus +1 and +2 notation so I’ll use it. There appears to be quite a difference at different schools on how the upper level calc is handled. In D18’s public HS, students in the +2 sequence take AP Calc AB (one hour class) or AP Calc AB/BC (two hour class) in 11th grade. If you take AB then you can take BC in 12th grade. If you take AB/BC in 11th then you can take GaTech MV calc in 12th grade.
Note that BC at D18’s HS is not an in-depth review of AB followed by more stuff. They start near the end of AB and progress from there (in-depth integration by parts followed by parametric equations, etc.). I had expected BC to be an in-depth review of AB for the first semester followed by new material in the second semester but it definitely is not!
This does look very accelerated at the lower levels, but decelerated at the upper levels. Since your son is in the +2 track, he will take calculus in 11th grade. If he chooses BC, then that will be equivalent to calculus 1 and 2. If he can take further math at a nearby college in 12th grade, then he can take calculus 3 then (typically a semester course, so he can take some other advanced math course the other semester).
Anyone please explain what are AP, AB, and BC Calculus?
@hpvdad AP stands for Advanced Placement which is College Board’s trademark for college equivalent exams given in May. Cal AB is supposed to be the equivalent of cal 1; BC cal 2.
You might want to check out AoPS. It is an online school that has forums for discussion, offers math like AMC/AIME courses/texts, and traditional courses/texts as well (but at a much higher mathematical problem solving level than traditional ps textbooks). Most students are kids supplementing their ps coursework.
They also have Alcumus, an online math supplement which is free. Back when my ds was taking AoPS’s courses, Alcumus stopped at alg 1. I don’t know if that is still the case or not.
Fwiw, their geometry course is one of their harder introductory level courses.
“Very few US universities explicitly state that calculus is required or expected for frosh applicants.”
They’re not going to explicitly state it but if you’re applying to the top schools your fellow applicants will have. And given the OP’s son is Asian and will be compared to other Asians who will have Calculus, even if they’re majoring in English.
In addition since the people that apply to the colleges listed (e.g Cal Tech, Penn Cornell) will have it, and given they’ll be applying to other colleges as well, it makes sense to have it for STEM for sure. If your HS doesn’t offer it then of course you don’t need to take it, even at a CC, esp for families that can’t afford it.
I know that my daughter’s 8th grade Algebra I class will also cover Geometry topics as well (two previous kids). I think you will really need to see the path for your high school to better understand. Our town publishes a flowchart that shows progression for Math.
My kids took algebra earlier than middle school. They did that because they were both really into math and their teachers recognized their interest and abilities. The oldest took algebra 1 in 5th grade. Youngest was a year later (6th grade.)
All through elementary school I watched other parents try to force their kids to accelerate. One kid was paired with my oldest and they were a great pair throughout upper elementary and middle school. The youngest had two kids in his class that were at the same level. The rest of the kids weren’t ready.
Their school was pretty good about moving through kids as it was appropriate. And frankly early acceleration caused a lot of schedule juggling in high school. It worked out well in the end for my kids - they have all their engineering math taken care of except for their statistics class, and it’s given them a lot of flexibility in their first years of college.
But don’t accelerate unless the kid is interested and ready. I’ve watched that work out poorly.
For the OP, the concerns of replies #30 and #32 are probably irrelevant, since it looks like the student is already on the +2 math track (geometry in 8th grade, leading to calculus in 11th grade) and finds math to be easy.
I think a conversation with the school counselor is needed.
Honors 8th grade math might include geometry concepts but not be considered “Geometry” in the standard math sequence. Most schools start calling the math classes what they are in middle and high school - so “Algebra” is called “Algebra” and “Geometry” is called “Geometry”. You need to get the school to clarify what class your kid is in now, what the standard progression is, and what options exist to “jump” ahead.
My kid had accelerated math in elementary (+1), tested into taking Algebra 1 in 7th grade (considered +2 in our district), then chose to take a summer precalc class between 9th and 10th grades, so she is considered “triple jumped” (+3). Currently an 11th grader, taking AP Calc BC, planning for either AP Stats at the high school next year or Calc 3 at the local community college.
Make sure you check the process to get credit for a summer class - you probably need the school’s permission in advance to make sure the credit and placement counts for your kid - I know we did. Some districts offer summer classes (for struggling kids to recover credits and for smart kids to jump). There are summer jump classes for middle school and high schoolers at our local university. And the option we took (with the school’s permission) was to enroll our kid in BYU’s on line high school class for pre-calculus.
Note - make sure the kid really wants this. We are seeing other kids who moved ahead with a summer class and are now struggling in high school. My kid pestered us to do this for several years before we finally agreed to let her do it, her AP Calc AB teacher told us he thought it was a poor choice but we think she’s a rare exception.
Seems like she is now back to +2 (calculus BC in 11th grade), rather than +3. Does your high school do the “slow calculus” thing* even for the strongest (+2/+3) math students?
*“Slow calculus” means that the only calculus courses are AB for one year, then the rest of BC assuming completion of AB the following year, rather than BC (including AB) in one year at college pace.
Had a meeting with Middle School’s counselor today. I asked her what title/name of the math class my S is taking. She told me that here they don’t call Algebra, Geometry.….they call math 6/6 honor, math 7/7 honor, and math 8/8 honor.
When I asked about the HS, the one my son is going to attend next year (same District). She printed out the math courses list from that HS. On the list, they call Integrated/ Integrated Honor Math 1, Integrated/H Math 2, Integrated Math/H 3, and Trigonometry for 9TH, 10TH, 11TH, , and 12th grader, respectively.
Does that mean that my son can’t take Calculus in HS?
The list of the courses:
Integrated Math 1. Prerequisite: None
Integrated Math 2. Prerequisite: IM 1
Integrated Math 3. Prerequisite: IM 2
Trigonometry. Prerequisite: IM 3
Math Analysis Prerequisite: IM 3
AP Statistic Prerequisite: IM 3. Students are expected to take AP Statistic Exam.
AP Calculus AB or BC Prerequisite: IM 3 with ‘A’ or IM 3 honor. Students are expected to take AP Calculus Exam
I asked her if my S can double taking the classes. She said no because they require prerequisites.
I checked the courses from another HS within same District. Same.
Should I make another appointment to meet with HS’s counselor?
Now, I am back here more confused than before.
Had a meeting with Middle School’s counselor today. I asked her what title/name of the math class my S is taking. She told me that here they don’t call Algebra, Geometry.….they call math 6/6 honor, math 7/7 honor, and math 8/8 honor.
When I asked about the HS, the one my son is going to attend next year (same District). She printed out the math courses list from that HS. On the list, they call Integrated/ Integrated Honor Math 1, Integrated/H Math 2, Integrated Math/H 3, and Trigonometry for 9TH, 10TH, 11TH, , and 12th grader, respectively.
Does that mean that my son can’t take Calculus in HS?
The list of the courses:
Integrated Math 1. Prerequisite: None
Integrated Math 2. Prerequisite: IM 1
Integrated Math 3. Prerequisite: IM 2
Trigonometry. Prerequisite: IM 3
Math Analysis Prerequisite: IM 3
AP Statistic Prerequisite: IM 3. Students are expected to take AP Statistic Exam.
AP Calculus AB or BC Prerequisite: IM 3 with ‘A’ or IM 3 honor. Students are expected to take AP Calculus Exam
I asked her if my S can double take the classes. She said no because they require prerequisites.
I checked the courses from another HS within same District. Same.
Should I make another appointment to meet with HS’s counselor?
Now, I am back here more confused than before
What is missing from reply #35 is which course your son will take next year.
IM 1, 2, 3 is typically an alternate sequence to algebra 1, geometry, and algebra 2, although the format precludes “doubling up” (taking geometry and algebra 2 together the year after algebra 1). But it looks like they do some cramming of precalculus and trigonometry into that sequence so that students who start in IM 1 in 9th grade can take calculus in 12th grade if they earn an A grade in IM 3. Looks like they also offer traditional precalculus and trigonometry courses for those who complete IM 3 but earn grades lower than A, and offer statistics as an elective.
I.e. even in the case he starts in IM 1, his sequence will be:
9th: IM 1 (or honors)
10th: IM 2 (or honors)
11th: IM 3 (or honors)
12th: calculus if he earns an A in IM 3, trigonometry / math analysis otherwise