Math classes (regular or AP)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Barnard College
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<p>Ok…so new question…these days I am choosing courses for next year. Right now I am in Math Analysis Honors (trig/pre calc) maintaining around a 94. I was recommended for AP Calc AB (the highest level offered is AP Calc BC) for next year. Math courses at my school are famously hard; there is only one BC Calc class and the class average is like a C. There is also a regular Calc offered. If you saw my last thread, I am worried about my GPA because it is low for Barnard standards, so I need really really good first semester senior year grades to make up for it. At best, I don’t think I’ll be able to pull off much more than a low A in AP Calc AB. On the other hand, I could probably get an A+ in regular. Barnard is a liberal arts school, and I am more of a history/english oriented person, so which option do you think would be better? Would Barnard admissions frown on me for taking the easy way out?</p>

<p>Thanks! :slight_smile:
btw, my school doesn’t offer an honors Calc (just regular and AP)</p>

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<p>I can’t give you a definitive answer, of course (I’m just an applicant), but I think it depends on the rigor of your courseload otherwise. If you’re taking mostly AP courses, I would personally recommend taking standard Calc- unless you are sure that you could maintain at least a low A in AP, in which case I’d go with that.</p>

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<p>I’ve never been a math person; I received mid “B”'s in all of my math courses in high school. But, deciding to challenge myself, I took CAL AB AP this year. And not only hated it, and my decision, but received my first ever “C”, dropping my GPA to a 94.7. Luckily I applied ED before these shenanigans took place, but CAL was a really challenging class for me. On the other hand, many mathematically inclined people are loving the class, and doing quite well in it. Since my academic fall from grace, I’ve managed to achieve a low “B” in the class, which will hopefully show that I’ve managed to overcome, etc. So I guess my point is that it is a challenging class, but difficult schools like to see that you are challenging yourself, and not just taking the easy way out. Sometimes you can do really poorly, and it will fall back into your face, but other times it all works out. You just never really know.</p>

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<p>I cannot answer your question directly, but perhaps the following information might be of some help. </p>

<p>My daughter, a current high school junior, does not particularly care for math. Before this school year began she wanted to take AP Psychology rather than Honors Pre-Calculus. This would have meant that as a senior she would take Honors Pre-Calculus rather than AP Calculus.</p>

<p>We visited Barnard last summer and as part of that visit we met with an admissions officer to specifically ask about whether daughter should take Honors Pre-Calculus rather than AP Psychology as a junior. This admissions officer made it clear that daughter should take the Pre Calculus as a junior and AP Calculus as a senior and so that is what my daughter is doing.</p>

<p>I know that our experience does not specifically address your issue, but I have posted it thinking that you might find it of some help.</p>

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<p>To complicate things: my daughter, who was accepted to Barnard RD and has since graduated… took AP Psych her junior year and no math. No math senior year either. She had geometry in 9th grade, and algebra II in 10th… and that was the end of math. (She went abroad for a semester foreign exchange in 11th grade, so actually only took 1 semester of AP Psych; there was a math class while abroad but it doesn’t equate to anything on in a US math track & was taught in another language in any case – I assume that at best my daughter learned some math vocabulary words in the foreign language).</p>

<p>Anyway, the point is that my daughter did exactly what the admissions officer recommended against in the post above, and she got accepted into Barnard.</p>

<p>But here is the difference: My daughter did not choose her curriculum in high school based on whether she could get into Barnard or any other college. Once she decided she wanted to do the semester-long foreign exchange, the issues shifted to figuring out how to meet all the high school’s minimum requirement to graduate in 4 years. The time abroad meant giving up on a lot of options, especially when it came to AP and honors classes. We did not know what that would mean for college admissions, and my daughter was willing to take the risk that her time abroad would hurt her chances down the line of getting into an elite college. </p>

<p>I think the fact that my daughter was clearly willing to take risks was one of the “hooks” that got her into Barnard and other top colleges. But she also had a really strong GPA, and was tied with one other student for #2 spot in her class at the time she applied to Barnard. </p>

<p>So the point is, these questions need to be answered on an individual basis – you can’t simply look at the advice someone else was given. In a sense I think that Count’s daughter was given “here’s how to look like everyone else” type advice – in other words, the standard advice that might be given to all students, but doesn’t really confer an admissions advantage. I don’t know what advice my d. would have been given if she had laid out her study-abroad plans her sophomore year and asked Barnard’s advice – probably something along the line of “you’re nuts” - but my d has been ignoring other people’s advice her whole life. </p>

<p>With your stated goal – you need a very strong first semester for Barnard – I’d think that for YOU, the best route would be the safest for your goal of boosting your GPA-- go for the regular calc course and get the A. Then Barnard sees a history/english student who continues with a 4th year of math – and challenges herself in other ways (presumably with AP English and honors/AP courses in areas of strength). A “C” in AP Calc could send the message that you are a serious student, but don’t quite have the ability to do well in a challenging environment … which does NOT help. In other words, the potential C in the AP class hurts more than the AP designation helps. (I mean, regular calculus isn’t easy)</p>

<p>If you had a STRONG GPA going into Senior year, then the best admissions strategy would be different - then it would be worth it to take the tougher class, to show that you are not afraid of stretching yourself with a challenge. But I think it’s too risky for you.</p>

<p>However, in the end you need to look at it from the perspective of what you personally are most comfortable with. Assume that it is a year from now and you are turned down from Barnard …looking back, from the position of rejection, which choice would you be more comfortable with? (That’s how I make all of the hard choices in my life – I envision myself in the future, looking back, and ask whether I will regret the choice if it doesn’t work out as hoped.) So which would you regret more… taking the easy way out with the regular course… or messing up your GPA with the harder course? Obviously, there is always the possibility that you will take the AP course and get an A – or that you will get accepted into Barnard under any of the math scenarios … but of course then it really wouldn’t matter anyway – you are asking about the “what if” options in terms of the very real possibility that one choice is more likely to lead to acceptance than the other.</p>

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<p>One other question – what’s your math SAT?</p>

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<p>My math SAT is 740. It’s actually my highest (CR:710, Writing:730). By the way, is my current GPA (3.84, about a 93) really that low for Barnard standards? I mean, I’ve done research, but I haven’t gotten consistent answers. If I get a low A in AP Calc next year, it won’t give me any sort of a boost but would it break me? Also, was your daughter in honors math classes the two years she did take math?</p>

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<p>No, my d. was not in honors math classes. She was actually put in 9th grade geometry by mistake – she arrived at the school pre-registration session and she had been put in all sophomore classes – otherwise she would have been in algebra I. Plus her math SAT was 590 at the end of sophomore year, and went down on a retake a year later. </p>

<p>Your high end math score actually complicates matters – on the one hand it shows a strong grasp of math, so no need to “prove” that you can do math with an AP class… on the other hand, with a 740 they might wonder why you didn’t go for the AP class. At least with my daughter’s scheduling issues her last 3 semesters she could very honestly point to scheduling conflicts as the reason she didn’t take many AP’s. She was taking 12th grade classes in the spring of 11th grade, and 11th grade classes during 12th grade to fill all the requirements, so naturally her scheduling was way off of what the high school was used to dealing with. </p>

<p>I’d just say, go with whatever class you are most comfortable with. If you really think that the AP class will be a struggle, it’s not worth the stress. It’s not just the label, its the quality of the teacher as well. For example, my d. opted for Honors English over AP English one year because she really felt that the Honors class sounded more appropriate to her needs, and liked the Honors teacher better. If you really want to learn calculus, as
opposed to opting for what looks best on a transcript – then a less demanding pace might be better for you. For math, once you’ve got a concept, you’ll be fine – but it’s impossible if the class goes too fast for you and you miss the concept. </p>

<p>Are the classes taught by the same or different teachers? You might want to talk to the teacher(s) about the expectations and pacing of both classes. My d. also chose Honors US History over APUSH, mostly because of scheduling issues – but the same teacher taught both, and my d. had a discussion with the teacher first and was fairly confident that she would be getting enough of a preparation in the Honors class to sit for the APUSH exam (she got a 4, good enough for AP credit at Barnard). </p>

<p>As to your GPA, I don’t have a clue. Does your school rank or at least report decile standing? My d. had a 3.85 GPA unweighted in high school - weighted GPA probably was about 4.1.</p>

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<p>I’m good at SAT-type math (simple, formulaic) but once it goes past that it takes a while for me to completely understand it without a formula or something that I can memorize and be done with. Frankly, I have absolutely no desire to learn any sort of math. If it were up to me, I would’ve stopped taking math classes right after middle school. I will be taking AP European History, AP English, AP Spanish, and possibly AP Biology next year so I do have a pretty rigorous schedule as it is. I really don’t know what I should do but I think talking to the teachers of each course should definitely help. GPA at my school is actually not calculated by the standard system out of 4.0. It is not weighted, but is calculated out of 4.5; a B+ is from 85-89 and is counted as a 3.5, an A is from 90-94 and is counted as a 4, and an A+ is from 95-100 and is counted as a 4.5. Since the GPAs are not weighted, my school does not rank either. On this scale my GPA is a 4.1 (I calculated the 3.84 off of how college board says it’s done).</p>

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<p>OK, it’s really hard to compare different grading systems. Your GPA sounds strong to me – and I think 3 AP’s is fine senior year, & 4 is more than enough. </p>

<p>So do talk to the teachers, and go for whichever class has the teacher who is going to be the best match for your learning style. It’s more important that you actually have a chance of learning something than impress the colleges – and in my opinion, there is no way that Barnard will look at a student with 3 or 4 APs and wonder why you aren’t also taking AP Calc. </p>

<p>My understanding of college admissions is that the look at everything in the context of the particular applicant. It would have looked bad for my d. to have stopped studying Russian, and I’m sure the math thing was iffy, but Barnard knows that many students won’t take a serious math class in all 4 years at Barnard. Barnard requires 1 quantitative reasoning class, so my d. took stats, managed to pull an A… and that was almost the last she ever had to deal with math. I say almost because she’s studying for the GRE these days, but she says that the math on the GRE is pretty basic stuff.</p>

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<p>I just want to add that I think you can go either way – I don’t think it would hurt your Barnard app if you went for AP Calc and had a B or C, if you had A’s in your other classes. The ad com knows that AP Calc is a tough course. </p>

<p>It’s just that you will have plenty of stress in your life. I don’t think you should take on something you don’t want to do that will add to the stress, out of some idea that you have to do it to improve your college chances.</p>