<p>I'm the parent of a middle schooler and in a bit of a quandry about this. Am hoping that some of you that have been there/done that can give me some insight.</p>
<p>My DD can take Algebra for high school credit in 7th grade and Geometry for high school credit in 8th. Is this generally the route to go to be competitive? So if she does this, then does she still take four years of math in high school? And, if so, is there a general sequence that the top schools require or recommend? </p>
<p>She is interested in STEM, more science than math though. Also, she is only in middle school, so this could obviously change.</p>
<p>She has done very well in math both in class and on standardized tests, but that is mostly due to preparation. Math doesn't come super easy to her, but she is a hard worker. I don't want her to be in over her head and completely stressed out about Algebra in 7th grade. Not sure if she will be or not. (I did confirm that, in our school district, these clases would count towards her high school GPA.)</p>
<p>S1 took that sequence in 7th & 8th grade. He took precalc in 9th grade, calc BC in 10th, AP Stat in 11th, and then Linear Algebra, Differential Equations and Multivariate Calc at the local community college in 12th grade. He majored in math and minored in physics. He’s now just finished his first year in a pure math PhD program. I think he found that many (but certainly not all) of the advanced math students at college - those who might logically go on for a math PhD - had similar preparations in high school.</p>
<p>For someone interested in science rather than pure math, I think calc BC and AP stat would be plenty of high school preparation. Some high schools highly recommend taking calc AB before taking calc BC. That would have been a mistake for S1, but he’s definitely been a math guy as long as anyone can remember. So for someone for whom math itself is not the passion, it may be a good plan to aim for if the high school math department likes to track kids that way.</p>
<p>Honestly, your daughter can be plenty competitive with regular math in 7th, Algebra Honors 8th, Geometry Honors 9th, Algebra II/Trig Honors 10th, Math Analysis/Calculus Honors 11th, AP Calculus BC 12th. </p>
<p>No need to burn her out, IMO, especially if math doesn’t come super easy for her. In our area, Algebra in 7th is not an option even for the brightest and best students.</p>
<p>barrk123, The alternative would be a class that is just called “7th grade math” (not sure what exactly is covered), followed by Algebra in 8th grade and then Geometry in 9th, etc.</p>
<p>calla1, That is what I am thinking at this point as well. Just want to make sure I am not doing a disservice to her by holding her back. I am afraid of the burn out factor, though, as you mentioned.</p>
<p>“Four years of math in high school” typically means a minimum level of trigonometry / precalculus, though if a student finishes that before senior year, it is highly encouraged to take calculus if available in the high school.</p>
<p>8th: algebra 1
9th: geometry
10th: algebra 2
11th: trigonometry / precalculus
12th: calculus (AB or BC)</p>
<p>Two years advanced:</p>
<p>7th: algebra 1
8th: geometry
9th: algebra 2
10th: trigonometry / precalculus
11th: calculus (students this advanced should be capable of taking BC)
12th: multivariable calculus, linear algebra, differential equations (if feasable to take at a local college or dual enrollment and student is interested in math or subjects that require this much math)</p>
<p>Note: calculus AB is usually first semester college frosh calculus, while BC is usually the whole year of college frosh calculus.</p>
<p>In terms of math requirements in college for various majors, note that science type majors vary:</p>
<p>Math or statistics: obviously lots of math
Physics or astronomy: multivariable calculus, linear algebra, differential equations; real and complex analysis recommended
Chemistry, geology, or engineering: multivariable calculus, linear algebra, differential equations
Computer science: linear algebra, discrete math (sometimes multivariable calculus and differential equations if engineering-based)
Biology: frosh calculus and statistics</p>
<p>Social studies type majors also vary:</p>
<p>Economics, aiming for PhD program: multivariable calculus, linear algebra, differential equations, real analysis, in-depth statistics
Economics (not PhD bound) or business: frosh calculus and statistics
Other social studies: statistics</p>
<p>I think it depends on the kid. Some are ready for algebra in 7th, but I’ve seen it go bad when kids would have been better served by waiting a year. If a kid doesn’t have a really good handle on algebra, everything that comes after will be difficult. She could start algebra in 8th and still do BC calc in 12th ( as long as your school doesn’t split calc into two years).</p>
<p>Alternatively, especially if it’s logistically difficult to take a college course and the school does not offer math beyond BC calculus:</p>
<p>12th: AP statistics (if it’s offered and the student is interested) or non-math academic elective</p>
<p>One of my kid was in this type of math sequence. She did not want to take AP statistics because she knew she would have to take a different type of statistics course in college as an economics major. So she didn’t take math in grade 12. She took an extra social studies course instead. Nothing bad happened.</p>
<p>I’m guessing only an extremely minute percentage of students start Algebra in 7th. I’ve never even heard of that option before. And I live in an area with very high-performing schools. Our students, the best of whom start Algebra in 8th grade, get accepted to top-tier colleges.</p>
<p>I would advise students to always stay “ahead” until it’s proven they can’t. Give them a chance first. It’s not critical that even an engineer be ahead, but walking into undergrad with one or two years of Calculus under your belt is very beneficial.</p>
<p>In our county, this is the sequence for top kids:
7th grade algebra I
8th grade geometry
9th grade algebra II
10th grade trig
11th grade pre-calculus
12th grade AP Calc AB</p>
<p>They can do some alternative scheduling because the system has implemented a block schedule, so students can double up. Some kids can make it to the AP BC level.</p>
<p>My D took Algebra I in 7th grade and she doesn’t regret it. She is currently a senior and her school has students take AP Calc AB for a year and then they take AP Calc BC/Multivariable Calc the next year.</p>
<p>There were only two problems with skipping ahead and one was that her Algebra 1 and Geometry classes went at a fast pace–especially Geometry because the kids were all at the same level and the teacher could really take them as far as they were willing to go. He taught them things my older daughter learned in college. The pace in middle school was fine for my D because she had been one to two years ahead in math since 4th grade and was always in classes with advanced students. When she got into high school though she was in normal math classes with kids of all abilities. So . . . it really slowed down for her. When she hit AP Calc AB the pace picked up again and she hadn’t gone at that pace since 8th grade. It took her several months to adjust to it but once she did she was fine. </p>
<p>Other than the pace issue, the only other problem she faced was some bullying by some junior boys when she was a freshman and they were all in Algebra II together. The teacher used to post the grades of each of the students (with their student number–no names) and the freshman were always the top students. I have no idea why the teacher did that because I don’t think it’s anyone’s business especially since the students had access to their grades online. Anyway, the two boys that picked on my D put her down any way they could in order to make themselves feel better about freshmen doing better than they did in their math class. </p>
<p>Even with the pacing and bullying issues, having my D skip ahead was the right thing for her. She was able to take any science classes she wanted because her math skills matched up to whatever math requirements there were for her science classes. She also likes business and her math skills have come in handy for economics and accounting. </p>
<p>All that being said, I have seen kids be pushed ahead by our middle and high schools and they were not ready. They were able to re-take the class the next year or over the summer or they moved to a lower-level class at the quarter or semester but I have no idea what that did to their self-confidence or how they did in future math classes.</p>
<p>I agree with what Ucb said about accelerating then decelerating. It seems that algebra in 7th grade is a point of pride for many schools/parents, but then the kids are decelerated in some way later on which I don’t understand. It seems that early algebra is more of a feel good or bragging right type of thing than something that is based on a kid truly being advanced. I had never heard of AP calc being split over two years till CC, but it seems that’s the norm at many schools.</p>
<p>It’s a difficult decision. My D took essentially what ucbalumnus described as the “two years advanced” sequence and it was stressful for her at times. In fact, in sophomore year of high school she seemed to be struggling and we engaged a tutor for a while. After that, however she found AP calc BC pretty straightforward, she got a 4.0 on the college multivariable and linear algebra courses, and loved going into college with all that math credit done. I’m certain she’d choose to do it again if she had the decision to make over.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it was a lot of hard work and it didn’t markedly transform D’s opportunities. She is now a science major at our state flagship, and obviously could have gotten to where she is now without the accelerated math sequence in high school.</p>
<p>I’ve had one on an advanced track (BC in 10th grade, but he’s a national math Olympiad-level kid), and we were faced with the decision for our current 6th grader. We’ve decided to let him do algebra in the 7th because he wants to. That said, my husband and I thought about what to do, so I understand your dilemma.</p>
<p>Algebra is often the first time kids have to deal with more abstract mathematics – and many, many kids struggle. It is not often apparent why; sometimes strong math students struggle because they’re just not ready to handle the concepts and it’s not that they’re not bright or even “good” in math. As a consequence, we’ve talked a lot to our son about what we feel his responsibilities are.</p>
<p>The number one thing is that if he doesn’t get a concept, there is no absolutely shame there. He needs to raise his hand and ask questions (he’s not shy, unlike his older brother). He needs to talk to his dad or me or his brother and he needs to make sure he’s strong on everything. No just hoping he’ll magically understand. We’ll see how this goes. But because Algebra is so foundational, I think we’ll just be a little more on top of it than we will be for his other classes to make sure he doesn’t have holes.</p>
<p>Because his brother is so strong, I sometimes have a hard time figuring out where this one is on the good math kid spectrum. He loves math and we’ve talked about how he can make a career using math and to not use his brother’s achievements as his benchmarks. </p>
<p>The irony is that we had to fight so hard for his older brother to have acceleration opportunities (his gifts were obvious from a very young age), but our district has switched philosophies and is now actively pushing 7th grade algebra. However, what we’re seeing on the high school level is that there are a lot of variations in strengths of programs and many kids are coming to Algebra 2 unprepared with gaping holes in their knowledge. Luckily, my younger son’s middle school is more cautious about acceleration and they aren’t pushing as many kids as possible into early algebra like some other middle schools.</p>
<p>“Weird. Accelerate them in 7th grade, then decelerate them in 10th-12 grade?”</p>
<p>Yup, it’s weird, but we are not in the counties in Maryland that have great minds figuring out the curriculum. FWIW, my kids left public schools for high school.</p>
<p>It may depend on which major. The point where being ahead in math reaches diminishing returns is likely the following (+0.5 = calculus AB, +1 = calculus BC, +2 = multivariable calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations completed in high school):</p>
<p>Math: no real limit, but going beyond +2 would require a good nearby university with rigorous upper division math courses
Statistics, Physics, Astronomy, Economics (PhD bound): similar to math, though only a few specific upper division math courses would be specified
Engineering, Computer Science, Chemistry, or Geology: +2
Biology, Economics (non-PhD-bound), Business: +1</p>
<p>However, all of these majors can be started from just having completed trigonometry and precalculus in high school (i.e. taking calculus as a college frosh). Being +0.5 accelerated would help ease the long prerequisite sequencing for some majors like engineering and physics.</p>
<p>I highly recommend that an able student take algebra in 7th grade</p>
<p>The recommended sequence is
7- Algebra
8 - Geometry
9 - Algebra II/Trig
10 - Precalculus
11 - AP Calculus BC
12 - Multivariable Calculus in the fall and Linear Algebra in the Spring. </p>
<p>If she flounders at any step (except Geometry) then slow her down. Learning it well is more important than learning it fast. However, the slow track is excruciatingly slow for many strong math kids.</p>
<p>My daughter did the two years ahead and took both multivariable and AP stats her senior year (the AP stats program was new they had multi for many years). However, it was convenient to do - the classes were offered at her high school. I would find out the complete list of math classes available at your high school and see what she would have to do senior year. It might not be worth it if the only math for senior year involves traveling to a CC - as this might not fit into her schedule well.</p>