<p>I'm not really sure if this is the right place to put it, but here goes:</p>
<p>I've been double accelerated in math since middle school, so as a junior, I just took AP Calc BC, which is the highest math class available at our school. I've known for a while that I wouldn't be able to take math at my high school senior year, but I never gave it any serious thought. Then, my high school started offering AP Statistics, so I figured I would take that senior year so that I could at least continue math, even if it wasn't beyond calculus. However, due to a scheduling conflict, I ended up with a free period during AP Statistics this year, and many of my friends were in it, so I decided to take it this year. Now I am out of math options at my high school, but I definitely want to take some sort of math next year, as I plan on majoring in math/physics/other science at college, so a year off would not be a great idea.</p>
<p>Theoretically, I have a few options. There are a few small colleges in my that offer multivariable calculus/linear algebra, and Columbia (I live outside NYC) allows high school students to take one class there. But I don't have the time to travel the 15 minutes to an hour (for NYC) as well as take the class at a specified time each week, not to mention I'm pretty sure I missed the deadline for Columbia. So, basically, that leaves me with the option of taking a course online. I haven't looked extensively, but Stanford offers EPGY, which allows high school students to take advanced classes online.</p>
<p>Can anyone vouch for how good EPGY is for math? Or offer another legitimate online course? Or possibly another option I overlooked, if you don't think online courses are the best option?</p>
<p>ummm... i took calc 3 with stanford epgy and barely pulled a C. it was really difficult for me and I had an A- in calc bc and got a 5. if ur really motivated and dont mind having ur ass kicked senior year, take it, imo. i have a friend who is going to harvard next year and she got a B...and was the most kick ass math person ever at my school...so ya. just my 2 cents but if u could take it at any close by uni and have an actual class i would do that</p>
<p>I personally dislike online classes, especially in math, because I tend to bother my teachers with strange questions about the material :P</p>
<p>If you're the type who can read a calculus book by yourself and understand everything, EPGY would be okay if you don't slack off (another con about online courses). The material isn't necessarily hard (going off of what I've seen from my friend's tests); my community college multivar class was significantly more challenging and interesting.</p>
<p>Of course, you don't <em>have</em> to take a math class next year.</p>
<p>My S took linear algebra at the local community college. His situation was similar to yours. It was a pretty good course given one evening a week for 3 hours.</p>
<p>ugh EPGY calc 3 was obnoxious...bad textbook, worse "teacher" who offered no help when we needed it. I was taking it with a classmate and we had no resources to help us at our school, and when we approached our supposed "tutor" for help he told us to just read the book. Thanks, dude. I did fine in the class (so this isn't over grade bitterness) but I would definitely not recommend it. Take a class with a real teacher who actually cares!</p>
<p>D had a similar negative experience with M52A at EPGY. The instruction was poor, the tests did not reflect the course content, and there was limited support. </p>
<p>I'm a Stanford alum, and I'm usually proud of my alma matter, but EPGY should be a much better program for the price.</p>
<p>We ended up using a different on-line program for our other daughter.</p>
<p>The first thing I would do is check to see if the colleges you're interested in accept AP credit for Stats. If they do, I would recommend self-studying for it because it's pretty easy, and it's nice not to have to take it in college. Also bear in mind that anything else you learn next year will probably not allow you to place out of the same material in college (unless you're really good). I would just take MVC and linear algebra at a community college instead of spending a lot of money on EPGY. If you're ambitious, you could try teaching yourself some analysis. Rudin and Spivak are good books for this.</p>
<p>tactics22: What online program did you use for your second daughter? My S is in a similar situation to OP, however he took multivariable calc with the local community college and it was horrible. He had to teach himself since the teacher was mean and useless. Since S has had success with online AP CS through FLVS (a very responsive teacher), we are looking for an online Linear Algebra course and were considering EPGY until I read this thread. Now, I fear, we are back to the prospect of AP stat at his high school or two nights a week at the local university (I refuse to let him take a class at the community college again).</p>
<p>Thanks.
We will look into those. I will especially look into independent study with MIT (it will save me money as the school district will not pay for online via other than FLVS). Does anyone on this board have experience with these other virtual resources?</p>
<p>I'm curious as to how schools deal with kids coming in with extensive math experience. My son will take multivariant calc as a 10th grader (this coming year) and so, in theory will have a couple of years of upper level college math (he is able to take classes at a local university).
I think he could care about placement but not credit.
One other option would be to take AP computer science - not math per se, but probably a good thing to have under your belt.
I also know another kid who is struggling with EPGY multivariant (at least I'm fairly sure that's what she is taking this summer)
I suppose you could also see if you could arrange an independent directed study with one of your high school teachers - maybe spent the time working towards the AMC12 and then (hopefully) the AIME.</p>
<p>Your son may want to consider AP Stats. Here's what happened to my daughter:</p>
<p>First, her high school recorded her EPGY grade (C+), and to make matters worse, they recorded it as a non-AP level class. As a result, she lost the VAL/SAL designation at her school and several other awards. It wasn't a big deal at the time, but now she's interested in applying for a Goldwater Scholarship, and her HS transcript will be part of the application. </p>
<p>Second, her major (neuroscience) requires Stats. AP Stats would have satisfied that requirement. Calc III, on the other hand, is largely irrelevant to her current and future studies.</p>
<p>As to your question, our second daughter took Algebra II over the summer with the University of Nebraska - Lincoln. I don't believe that UN-L offers higher level classes like Linear Algebra or Calc III.</p>
<p>Regarding Post #1:
One thing that worked for me well was to take an "Independent Study"
at School with credits mapped for the entire year. For the proposal
you could use the OCW M-VCalc content and
get your Math head and headmaster to okay it. </p>
<p>This way the syllabus, text etc including exams are available. You would
be working independently during your free perios or a specifically designated
period. You would probably need someone in the Math department to
be your sponsor at school.</p>
<p>Most schools have provisions for formalizing Independent Study and allow it
appear on your transcript.</p>
<p>tactics:
Thanks for the suggestions and info. I may just suggest AP Stat, but he is such a math kid and I'm afraid he would be frustrated by having to wait an enitre year before continuing his math studies. And will taking Stat make colleges think he was just padding his GPA and not pursuing his stated passion? As for college credit, I know at older S's school they do not give credit or placement for AP stat. Who knows how they will treat Multi Variable Calc from the community college? At older S's college (and a friend's school) they combine multi variable calc and linear algebra in one class (for students who completed BC in high school with a 5), that is why I am hopeful younger S can get a linear algebra course while in high school. Similar to Nemom's child, placement is the more important issue for him as he will probably want to spend all four years at UG, regardless of how many credits he brings in.
MIT:
Did you attend a private school? I just do not think S's public HS will give him credit for independent study without a standardized test as a culminating assessment. Also, since he is ranked at the top of his class, I am concerned that if they did give credit it would not be weighted the same as AP/IB classes and thus hurt his GPA.</p>
<p>I took M52A this year and barely got a C (and I'm a "math person"--5 on BC, 800 on Math SAT, valedictorian, and I've done math camp every summer). It definitely didn't prepare me well enough to move on, and I'm retaking multivariable next year (I'm actually going to Stanford). </p>
<p>That being said, it wasn't a horrible experience. I learned/understood the material so I think it will be a big help in my math classes next year. And at the very least, it kept me doing math so I didn't forget anything. I didn't submit my EPGY transcript to my high school so my grade didn't go on my transcript. (Just for the record, I also took Physics through EPGY and it was amazing--definitely prepared me for the AP).</p>
<p>Wow Amandah27, EPGY M52A teachers sound very harsh. I think it is clear to avoid EPGY for math and use it for Physics.<br>
Is it a common practice to be able to not submit a transcript to your high school? </p>
<p>PS: Older S attends Stanford and the math course he took after BC (5 also) was a combination of multi-variable and linear algebra (he had to buy two expensive text books) in merely 10 weeks.</p>
<p>I did M52A and Physics B Mechanics through EPGY.</p>
<p>Agreeing with a lot of the things that has been said before - there's a ton of self-studying, the tests are very difficult, and the instructor is never available.</p>
<p>I think M52A reflects poorly on what multivariable actually is, IMO. I'm not exactly sure whether if this is just me, but I felt M52A basically entailed doing textbook problems (which are very formulaic and routine) while leaving you to figure out the conceptual/abstract stuff yourself. When I took multi again at MIT, it felt like learning a whole new subject from the multi that I took at EPGY. I think multi is a crucial course in honing your ability to think and reason, and I dislike the way that EPGY presented the material. I think you end up knowing how to understand the textbook fine, but not understanding the material thoroughly enough to benefit you in the long run (for example, if you choose to take a real undergrad multi class). Multi is about developing mathematical reasoning (especially in the 3rd dimension), and if you're thinking about doing an engineering/science major in the future, it might be worth it to consider doing another class or retaking multi in college.</p>
<p>I didn't take any of the advanced physics classes, just Mechanics, so my comments only apply for AP Mech that I took through EPGY.</p>
<p>I thought the expected learning goals were more clearly defined than M52A, and the tests were more reasonable. I don't know if it's because the subject material is easier and less abstract than M52A, but I felt it just felt like a regular high school class (except more self-studying), while M52A was completely "out-there" for me (but then again, I attempted these courses sophomore summer). However, a thing to note is that I also could never track down my instructor, and it was at times frustrating (I would figure out a problem faster than it take the time for him to reply my question). I think this is one big thing that EPGY should improve on.</p>
<p>Would anyone happen to have old tests or examples of tests from the Stanford EPGY Multivariable Calculus Course, my friend left me his book,notes & course schedule so that I could independently study it without enrolling in the course and paying the expensive fees. And I was hoping somebody had the old tests so I could study and take them to see if I mastered the material......</p>