<p>I understand the differences between all of these at this point, but how would you guys rank them in terms of how hard it is to get in? I'm not really confident of my proof-writing abilities... :-/</p>
<p>i hope someone answers also! which would be better for competition??</p>
<p>I think ROSS and PROMYS are research-based, Awesome Math and Mathcamp are for competition, and HcSSIM is for… college preparation?</p>
<p>Ya, I am curious how hard it is to get into Math Camp.</p>
<p>does the work one does at mathpath middle school summer math program help getting in to any of these?</p>
<p>ROSS and PROMYS are problem set based number theory, Mathcamp and HcSSIM is for the joy of math (only way to describe it, you pick and choose random topics to learn), AwesomeMath is pure competition training (they have former IMO coaches teach it).</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure that the main component of applications to any of these are the qualifying quizzes, which is really what I’m asking about.</p>
<p>I refuse to bump, I am merely wishing people happy holidays.</p>
<p>HCSSiM has the “Interesting Test.” If you like the kinds of problems on that test, it may be a good fit. It is NOT a competition-driven program. It’s for quirky kids who like to play with their math. Totally rocked my son’s world.</p>
<p>To answer questions above, at any of those programs what you have previously done in math during the school year or during previous summers will be one element of the admission process, but the main element will be doing the application quiz. It’s not clear to me which program is “harder” to get into, because the same applicant might do better or worse in a particular year on the application quiz of one program or another for partly random reasons that relate more to that applicant than to the general difficulty of the program. Apply to more than one program if you are interested in more than one.</p>
<p>HCSSIM is not for college preparation. It is an 8-week-long programme for students whose objective is simply to learn about math an d have fun with it. It is not for competition prep, it is not for college prep. It is for playing with math and being surrounded by people who want to do the same thing. It has a reputation for being very nerdy, quirky, and fun-loving.</p>
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<p>I see there is a parent question here I should respond to more. I like MathPath a lot, and remember it as one of my son’s best summer experiences. I know students who attended MathPath all three years that they could. Today there are some more competition-oriented summer programs for a similar age range, e.g. AwesomeMath, and if competition preparation is the goal, and MathPath is something the student has already done, then switching brand names and trying AwesomeMath might be the way to go. I know nothing about that program from personal experience.</p>
<p>The consensus is ROSS and PROMYS are for research, HCSSIM is for fun, AwesomeMath is for VERY INTENSE Math Olympiad training.
MathCamp, though, is all of the above. You can do independent research with a mentor, take problem solving (read: competition) classes, take other college level classes, take “fun” classes that only require middle school math, or take no classes, because attendance is not mandatory.
So here’s how classes work. There are 5 periods every day, and at the beginning of the week they will give you a catalogue of classes offered in every period. Generally there are 4-5 classes per period. Most students choose to take classes in 3-4 of the 5 periods.
PM me if you have more questions about Mathcamp. I also know several people from AwesomeMath so I guess I can answer some of those questions as well.
From what I understood, all these programs look for problem solving skills, but to survive you have to have very deep passion in math. If you’re not a nerd, you will be ostracized by the ultra nerdiness around you.</p>
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<p>i think my son (just turned 13) will do mathpath again this year. he really had a wonderful time and the kids are in his age range/level of maturity.
i hear awesome math is wonderful and when he is not the youngest there that sounds like a great choice.
thanks for your opinion/advice!</p>
<p>Can anyone familiar with the various programs please help? My son is a top performer at most local and national math contests - 9th grader who has already qualified for USAMO, Nats MATHCOUNTS Competitor, etc, etc (you get the picture) – he has already completed ALL high school math, including BC Calc for which he earned a 5 on the AP test, so he is extremely strong at math. His goal is to do even better on the USAMO, and his ultimate goal after that is to (hopefully) get into one of the most competitive colleges. He may want to also do some research, but not sure about that. But I want to make sure he is preparing properly for all 3 scenarios (USAMO, College, Research) - so here is my question! Deadlines are fast approaching for Ross, Promys, etc. but I am confused as to the differences in the various programs and/or which are more likely to help with all 3 or any of these goals. My other concern is level of difficulty/challenge at these camps – but of them being “not challenging enough” for my son - not concerned about too much challenge. Before you tell me how competitive they are, and of the high caliber student who attends, let me explain: My son attended Mathpath summer of 7th grade, and though he enjoyed it, he was absolutely NOT challenged enough. He said they baredly “scratched the surface” and that the topics even the top professors spoke of gave the intro info my son had already known (had learned on his own through reading or the internet) so my fear is that he goes to a program like Promys because people say “oh, that’s a very good math program” and maybe it is for the top 1% of students, but what can you suggest for a student who is in the top .00001%? Which program is honestly the best for students who have the Real potential to be say, one of the best in the country in their grade, and maybe in the top 30 students nationwide, overall? I hope this doesn’t come across as being arrogant, just honest. Which program do you suggest for the summer before 10th grade, and the summer(s) after that? Thanks for all your help!</p>
<p>It’s all about what you want to get out of the program. If you want a higher USAMO score obviously go to a program about competition math. If you want to learn pure math I would say go to Ross or Promys (at least I know them best). Do not worry about your son being “too smart” for these programs. I went to Ross a few years back and in my first year there were 2 Mop members and an IMO competitor none of which finished all of the sets. Only one person was actually able to complete all of the sets, finishing just at the end of the program(not a competitive math person). This was the first person in years to finish all of the sets, I think the previous one is now a senior in college who is going on to a top notch grad school in math. Even if your son was so good as to be able to finish all the sets early each day there are advanced problems, additional courses, guest lectures, and counselors who provide interesting problems/courses as well. I am confident in saying that there is no way your son will not learn a lot from Ross over the eight weeks. The first few sets may be easy for him because Ross really does start from the most basic axioms for integers, but he will learn rigor that is useful for the rest of his career, and he will also learn a lot from the sets(after the first few). If he really enjoys math I highly recommend Ross. It is probably the most intense of the programs because it is all about self-motivation. If your son really does love math then he will be constantly working on problems and thinking about them. There really is no limit to the amount of math they can do.
Promys I’ve heard is also very good, but less intense than Ross. Promys has scheduled breaks and I think a much more regimented day including answers given to problems that a person cannot get. Ross, on the other hand, basically has no forced schedule. Class in the morning, a precept type class 3 days a week and that is all you have to do. Both will teach a lot and provide insight into higher math; however, if you want more of a “camp” I would say that is promys.
I hope this helps. If you have any questions about Ross specifically feel free to message me I would be glad to answer(I may also be going back this summer).</p>
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<p>That’s a very specific goal, and suggests focusing on the most competition-oriented programs. </p>
<p>I agree with what ras22 said about Ross. That program is sufficiently challenging to result in intellectual growth even for a very well prepared student. And the program is prepared to challenge students who do far better than the typical first-year Ross student does. But Ross is only very indirectly preparation for USAMO. One learns number theory cold at Ross, and that helps with AIME scores, which helps for qualifying for USAMO. And Ross is all about proof-writing, which helps a good bit for USAMO, but Ross problem sets are only occasionally somewhat like competition proof problems. </p>
<p>Good luck figuring out what to do.</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.davidsongifted.org/youngscholars/[/url]”>http://www.davidsongifted.org/youngscholars/</a> </p>
<p>The Davidson Young Scholars program is not solely a math program, but it is a good fit for a child who is particularly academically advanced.</p>
<p>how prestigious is Promys in terms of programs?
do they offer good research?</p>
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<p>AwesomeMath is purely competition-based, but it is probably the best camp for competitions. Ross, PROMYS, MathCamp, and HCSSiM are all research-based.
PROMYS and Ross are for number theory. While they are respectable camps, I would recommend Texas A&M’s Summer Mathematics Research Training (SMaRT) for aspiring number theorists. It is highly rigorous, but it is still free.</p>
<p>HCSSiM and MathCamp deal with a variety of topics. HCSSiM does combinatorics, number theory, graph theory, (basic) complex analysis, probability, nonlinear dynamics etc…</p>
<p>On the other hand, MathCamp (arguably the most difficult camp to earn admission into) has the highest level of education. The easiest courses there are single-variable calculus, multivariable calculus, graph theory, number theory, probability theory, etc. The hardest courses deal with high-level undergrad materal/graduate material, such as real analysis, abstract algebra, algebraic topology, and more.
MathCamp also offers classes in Olympiad Problem solving, for those of you who love your math contests.</p>
<p>In terms of PROMYS vs. Ross vs. SMaRT, PROMYS and Ross are rough equivalents, considering the fact that they use identical problem sets written by Arnold Ross. It’s important to note that PROMYS was intended to be a continuation of the Ross program during a time where the Ross program appeared to be reaching an end. Both are going strong now! PROMYS is six weeks, Ross is eight weeks, and SMaRT is only two weeks. I’d definitely recommend PROMYS or Ross to anyone curious in number theory and willing to work very, very hard (as a first year student, after a morning lecture from 9 to 10:30, i would work from about 11 in the morning to 1 in the morning, with meal breaks). SMaRT appears to offer similar topics to PROMYS (although PROMYS doesn’t extensively advertise it, courses in Abstract Algebra, Geometry+Symmetry, and Modular Forms were offered in 2010 in addition to the basic Number Theory course and the optional but recommended Lab/Research, although Number Theory was difficult and challenging enough for all of the first years).
In response to E2012CY, PROMYS is a very prestigious program. After speaking to miscellaneous people in the field (generally math professors in the Boston area), the general consensus appears to be that PROMYS, Ross, Mathcamp, and HCSSIM are considered the four most well-known/prestigious programs (PantherTrax - MathCamp is probably not the most difficult camp to earn admission into, all four are roughly equivalent in terms of difficulty of admission).
Mathcamp and HCSSIM cover a wider variety of topics instead of focusing on number theory, which may appeal to some but not others. Mathcamp also has a unique setup of course selection, since students aren’t technically required to attend any class in particular but instead are allowed to pick and choose which courses to attend.
HCSSIM, on the other hand, has the benefit of depth of studies. After speaking with someone whose attended Mathcamp, then HCSSIM, he said that Mathcamp introduced to him a wide variety of topics in a decent amount of detail, and HCSSIM offered a wide variety of topics, but in detail equivalent to the amount of detail in college courses. I’d also suggest looking into SUMAC, since I hear it’s relatively similar. </p>
<p>AwesomeMath is considerably less “prestigious” in terms of stand-alone quality, but it does help attendees excel in competition math. However, considering the fact that AwesomeMath doesn’t facilitate discovery or understanding of the actual “bare bones” of mathematics, I’d suggest looking into the other four camps more closely before deciding upon AwesomeMath (unless you’re striving to excel only in competitions, in which case, AwesomeMath would be a perfect fit).</p>