<p>Hello I was hoping I could find some guidance for a few questions I have regarding a mathematics phd vs an applied mathematics phd. I am beginning to look at phd programs with the goal to eventually become a professor. From what I have been reading there are phd programs for a "Mathematics PHD" that seem to allow you to choose a focus towards taking applied based courses or pure math based courses, including choosing the area of research you will focus in. I was wondering how this differs from an actual "Applied Mathematics Phd." I am very interested in applied mathematics so I would like to focus more in that area, although I do appreciate the more theoretical side as well. However, I also wasn't sure if a PHD in Applied Math would make it harder to get a job as a professor at a university vs a Mathematics PHD. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!</p>
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<p>Applied mathematics draws its topics from real world applications. The point is to solve mathematical problems and develop solutions to mathematical problems that exist in the real world. The research is motivated by real world applications and not just mathematics itself.</p>
<p>Pure mathematics is of course studying mathematics and its structures themselves by using mathematical logic.</p>
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<p>It shouldn’t be about simply a degree’s focus, but much more and else (social ability, teaching skills, can do independent research, can do good research, being capable of being a role model).</p>
<p>I understand pretty well the difference between the Applied Math and Pure Math, and have taken courses relating to both. For the reasons you explained above, Applied Math and the research it entails is what I prefer and find more interesting. I also do understand what you are saying with regards to other factors that affect and contribute to the job. </p>
<p>What my main concern I guess is that, for instance, UCONN has a PHD program in “Mathematics.” Now of course I am assuming you can take courses that relate to applied mathematics while going for this degree. However, how does this differ from a strictly “Applied Mathematics” program, such as the PHD program at Brown University.</p>
<p>Look at the research programs of the faculty in these various departments. If there aren’t several people who you could envision spending several years doing a project with, then it’s probably not a good program for you. You should seek advice from your math and applied math professors about your interests and career plans, and which programs may suit your interests best, as well as asking them about the job market for math or applied math PhDs at Universities. University positions can be extremely competitive to get. So you should also investigate what alternative careers particular degree specializations may qualify you for in the event that you aren’t able to get a University position.</p>
<p>Thank you for the good advice mathyone. Like you said, I am going to have to spend some tme researching the research programs of the faculty. I also think that Applied Math would give me many more alternate careers that I would be interested in versus Pure Math.</p>
<p>lol, a bunch of the Brown profs came from Brown.</p>
<p>BrownParent, that is so blatantly not true, I have to respond. Take a look at the list of math faculty at Brown: [Brown</a> University Mathematics Department](<a href=“http://www.math.brown.edu/faculty/faculty.html]Brown”>http://www.math.brown.edu/faculty/faculty.html)
Not a single one of the professors got their PhD at Brown. There is one lecturer in the department, who did earn a PhD at Brown. I don’t know the details at Brown but typically a lecturer is teaching full time for less than half the salary of the professors with no research support and no job security. People who take these jobs usually do so because they weren’t able to get a professor job, or else sometimes for personal reasons (eg spouse cannot relocate). Please don’t give this young man the impression that he can just waltz into a math professorship after getting a PhD at Brown.</p>
<p>I looked at the Applied Math dept because they are very well regarded in that and the first 3 I randomly clicked on were Brown PhD’s.</p>
<p>I’m not giving anyone an impression that it is easy to get a math professorship. As a matter of fact I’d lean to discouraging such aspirations because of the extreme difficulty of the job market in academia. Check yourself before putting words into other people’s mouths.</p>
<p>I was trying to give him a realistic picture but you keep trying to give him false hope. I checked the Brown applied math dept, and yes, they do have quite a few who received PhD’s at Brown. It’s not all laid out on one page so I may have miscounted but I think there were 6 in a total department listing of 33. Now look at the recent doctorate page. You can see that they are graduating about 7 PhD’s per year over the past 4 years. Over 30 year, that’s 210 PhD students. 6 of them got professorships at Brown. The other 204 didn’t. Saying that “a bunch” of the Brown profs came from Brown in a discussion about chances of getting a faculty position is misleadingly ignoring the fact that the vast, vast majority of these PhD’s are not going to get a faculty position at Brown.</p>
<p>I understand that it is very competitive to get a job as a professor, especially at Brown, whether you graduate from there or not. However, it is what I really want to do so I am hoping I just get lucky once I do graduate from wherever I end up attending. I do really appreciate all of the information you guys are providing though.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to discourage you from pursuing what you enjoy, I just wanted to make sure you understand that it’s a lot harder than many young people realize to become a professor, before you make that investment. Talk to the professors at your school, and the grad students, if there are any. Good luck.</p>
<p>In addition to mathyone’s advice about talking to lots of folks about this, here’s some more advice from someone who’s been there.
I am an Applied math PhD (UMD - 1994)and am now a tenured prof at a regional university, with an emphasis on teaching. I graduated into a very bad job market and the market is even worse now. Many retirements are replaced by adjuncts or one-year faculty, rather than tenured track faculty, at smaller places. At the large universities, the tendency is to hire fewer TT professors - these positions are extremely competitive.</p>
<p>Look at [American</a> Mathematical Society :: Homepage](<a href=“http://www.ams.org%5DAmerican”>http://www.ams.org) for objective stats about the math job market by specialties. Also look at [SIAM:</a> Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics](<a href=“http://www.siam.org%5DSIAM:”>http://www.siam.org) for info about applied math. Industry hires some applied mathematicians, but they have to be in the right subfield of applied math, like optimization, statistics etc. Also PhD’s from programs that are not top-tier are not as well regarded because there is a wide range in quality of PhD programs in math. This comes into play when you apply for jobs and postdoc opportunities. </p>
<p>PhD programs, especially the ones not in the toptier, are not forthcoming about job opportunities. A PhD is a tremendous investment of time, especially in your prime 20’s, and keeps you from pursuing other goals which could prove more professionally rewarding in the long run.</p>
<p>I understand that the job market is really tough right now, even though many professors at my university advised me that there are jobs out there. I also understand it is a lot of work. For both reasons, I was considering high school teaching up until now. However, I would really prefer to teach at the college level, as well as conduct research.</p>
<p>Tell me if I am wrong, but the conclusion I have come to lately is if the worse case scenario happens and I really cannot find a tenure-track job after graduation, I could always revert to teaching high school (after getting the education certification finished). Although this would not be my preference, I would not mind this as I really do want to teach. Some may say well the PHD was a waste then, but I believe education is never a waste so it would still be quite an accomplishment (even if I am jobless). </p>
<p>mathprof63, what goals are you talking about that would be more rewarding in the long run? I am not sure I understand.</p>
<p>Not many high school teachers have PhDs. I don’t know how much of an issue it would be, but something to look into is how much a PhD affects the salary they would pay you. I have heard that it can be difficult for older teachers with years of experience to get positions. Typical teacher contracts require teachers with years of experience to be paid quite a bit more, and schools can hire new teachers for far less. You might run into the same kind of problem; I really can’t say, but it’s worth checking out. Probably not a problem at private schools though and a high end private school might be happy to get someone who can teach math at high levels.</p>
<p>I have researched it a bit and from what I have read, although a PHD may make it a little harder to find a job at a high school, many high schools do find it has a plus. I’ve actually had a few high school teachers with a PHD. The only thing is you have to go back and get certified. Again, this would only be in the worst case scenario of absolutely not being able to find a job. I am not sure how the job market is in community colleges for tenure jobs compared to universities, but that would be an option as well. If you have any further knowlege about the job market please let me know!</p>
<p>Re: long terms goals - there are opportunities other than teaching for someone with a solid quantitative background - actuaries, applied statistics, etc. (Perhaps you are not interested in that…) There are also programs with a professional Master’s. If you have your heart set on teaching, do look at the AMS web site on Employment statistics (link is in my earlier post). It will give you an objective view of the job market - not hearsay.
By the way, community colleges are in the same boat - replacing retirements with adjuncts and hiring very few tenure track faculty. More objective information: google “Occupational Outlook Handbook” published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Look under mathematician or college professor and see what they say. These folks are experts in spotting long term trends in employment.</p>