Maybe it's a little of that and a little of this....

Parents Forum
1

<p>Maybe not.</p>

<p>I hope marite doesn't mind but I am going to paraphrase part of a PM I sent her recently, absent the personal portions which I have redacted and plus some other thoughts. I have no idea if this will help anyone avoid some of the crap flying by- DUCK!!!-just felt a compelling need to try.</p>

<p>These boards are mighty odd places. I'm not an expert at anything and that includes message boards. I don't pretend to be the oracle or even good at it. But I truly like some of you folks, and a great many of you I find quite interesting. Happily, more than a few fall into both categories (and that's the one's I like best- you weird, happy people). I do have some scattered thoughts on our recent problems that I will share with y'all for whatever they are worth.</p>

<p>I think that sometimes on the board we cause ourselves to be "seen" as caricatures , and all we "see" in return posts are the caricatures of other posters. Things can and do get distorted by the limitations of the message board medium and the instantaneous and un-erasable character of that medium. (That is one short edit time mods. Might as well be 20 seconds. That twenty minutes goes by pretty darn fast when you have a full head of steam.) Speed is the enemy of delicacy on this board. Watch the time of posting on the most heated threads-they can get pretty close together.</p>

<p>The accuracy and quality of the image we present of ourselves and our feelings, positions, and opinions in this medium is roughly akin to the accuracy and quality of our reflection in a funhouse mirror. A little step forward and I'm even fatter. Step back and I'm three feet tall. Posts take on a different meaning than intended. Feelings get hurt more quickly.</p>

<p>As a communication tool this medium sucks, to use a technical term, at conveying subtlety or sarcasm or humor, and sometimes seeking clarity of meaning we make word choices a heightened level "up" from the words we would use on the phone. Maybe two levels up from the words we would use face to face. I think that's what happens, at least a large part of the time. The rest of the time, I'm just right.(JK-see? Some of you visualized a giant jack-ass, didn't you? Actually, I'm not a giant ;), technically speaking.)</p>

<p>JMO.</p>

2

<p>


</p>

<p>As always, we can count on Curmudgeon to make a humorous observation that has deep meaning at the same time. </p>

<p>I hope everyone feels welcome to stick around to share information and encouragement. I have found CC very helpful in the last year. I "knew" Marite, in that imperfect funhouse mirror way, even before either of us knew of CC, from an email list we formerly participated in. (We have both left that list since.) It was a very pleasant surprise to find her here. </p>

<p>Let's be sure to have fun as long as we are all in the funhouse together.</p>

3

<p>Well said, Curmudgeon. I have not been reading CC much lately to know what's led to this, if anything specifically. Your observations are very true and I hope that anyone who might have had hurt feelings over anything posted will think about your words and put things into perspective.</p>

<p>I tend to not post often (not as often as I read/lurk) because I worry that I will not say things clearly/delicately and thus offend. That's my issue and I'm the one missing out here, not the rest of you. But I do enjoy the many interesting personalities on board and I learn so much from you all.</p>

4

<p>Absolutely, the medium, even on this well moderated board, has its inherent difficulties. I agree that the edit time is way too short. I'm not sure why it's arranged this way as I am active on a very different discussion forum that allows its members the option to edit their posts forever - though the fact that the post has been edited will show up. Perhaps this is something that can change? :)</p>

<p>I'm not aware of what's prompted your post curmudgeon, because I always find you much more than a "fun house" reflection, but I do agree it's extremely easy to misunderstand, be misunderstood or judged unfairly when posting on a board that's got more than a small group of well known posters... I think that the stakes get higher when people are discussing such subjects as we have here on CC that carry with them such a heavy emotional component, as well. </p>

<p>P.S. Giacomo - the second biggest long shot in The Derby's history to win - just won the Kentucky Derby! :D I think there's a correlation here regarding our children and college, too.;)</p>

5

<p>BLUMINI, Nothing specifically happened to me. There were some hard feelings the last few days among some posters and I spent little time posting and managed to stay out of the direct line of fire. I wanted to respond to mini's thread but didn't want to have it co-opted by my post as that thread was staying positive. So I started this thread. That's it.</p>

6

<p>Understandable - and you, always a gentleman. Thank you for taking the time to explain the situation.</p>

7

<p>Just got back from a neighborhood Kentucky Derby party (emphasis on the neigh!!!) and I wanted to say to Blumini, longshots are soooo exciting, especially in college admissions.</p>

8

<p>Spoken like a true Pres., Curmudgeon</p>

9

<p>Well I would say that these boards serve two purposes. One is to share facts and the other opinions. When you share opinions your views get bounced back to you favourably if you are preaching to the choir and probably less favourably if you are preaching in the public square or down at some Storeyville den of inequity. Whatever some true believer sees as self-evident someone with a different opinion or no opinion might find questionable at best and preposterous and ill-informed at worst. Bottom line is if your feelings are easily hurt you should probably avoid some threads. CC is a public forum like the town square. Nobody should presume that their opions will go unchallenged.</p>

<p>On the other hand a lot of what goes on here is the simple exchange of facts. Sure folks can disagree about the facts and what constitutes a fact as opposed to an opinion but those threads are a lot less acrimonious. I think what people need to be able to do is not let the acrimony from an opinion thread carry over into a fact thread.</p>

10

<p>Curmudgeon and all others,
I am a newbie to CC. There currently seems to be several threads running that focus on the perceptions of civility or the lack thereof on CC, as well as the inherent communication weaknesses of message boards in general. Please help me to understand.....</p>

<p>Is this the first time that these issues have been raised? Were people nicer or at least perceived as nicer in the past? Is there really no change at all and these issues cycle through and I just don't have the history on CC to know that? </p>

<p>I have posted less than 10 times so far. My first post was to respond with some factual information. My second post was in response to an issue of professional concern to me. I have to say that I was taken aback by the "snarky" responses my posting received. I recounted my posting, resulting responses, and my hurt feelings to my husband, Doddsdad (who has been involved in CC longer than I and got me hooked on CC). He reminded me that the medium was limited. The other posters/readers couldn't see me, my body language, and facial expressions. They couldn't hear the tone of my voice. Simply, they didn't know me. I guess the bottomline is that it's hard not to take offense with someone who disagrees with you, especially in a public forum.</p>

11

<p>doddsmom, I saw those passages. (Didn't understand any of the big scary words so I didn't post ...but I did see it.) Sometimes people are just "snarky", and sometimes it's what we are discussing here-we're living with limitations of the medium. I guess the trick is to know which is which and that comes from experience with individual posters. I am approaching a thousand posts. I used to giggle at posters with a thousand posts. I still make horrible mistakes in judgment, why shouldn't everyone else? (and that includes you. Get back on the horse, and this time remember where that gopher hole is.)</p>

<p>I guess to a certain extent, if this board can even be compared to other media, we are part encylclopedia, part Ann or Abby column, part editorial page, part "Everyday Cheapskate", sometimes even part want-ad, part roundtable, part point/counterpoint, part news show but most definitely part soap opera. I kinda like the cartoons.</p>

12

<p>There do seem to have been heightened tensions lately. I know that I take this as a sign of the need to be extra polite, and to also "short-circuit" disputes. If someone gives me a bit of grief (from my point of view) I am resolving to wish them well and move on. This makes me feel OK about the grief, and perhaps gives the other poster a chance to move on as well.</p>

<p>It may also have the potential to be very amusing for the rest of the community. At least I hope so...</p>

13

<p>Like reasonabledad, I've noticed the need to tiptoe lightly lately. I am assuming that none of us read all the threads and all the posts, so we can't always know what is going on elsewhere in this forum, other than by what is mentioned in something we read. Most of us have learned from experience that the "regular" CC cafe can be a scary place, where you need to don your armour before entering, and for the mostpart have steered clear after getting warned or stung a time or two. This is what eventually gave rise to the relatively new parents cafe. It was seeming to be a kindler, gentler place, but seems now to occasionally take on a few of the attributes of its "big brother", the CC cafe. I guess we shouldnt be surprised. I for one, tend to toggle back and forth between the parents forum and the parents cafe, and if others do as well, perhaps the tone in the forum may occasionally bleed over from that in the cafe.. Just a thought...</p>

<p>So, are people more snarly lately?? Perhaps. After all, right now,the parents of seniors are dealing with a myriad of feelings-- excitement, sadness, closure, loss, separation, transition, etc etc. This board can be a safe place to share, a place to laugh, but also a safe place to vent. I suspect we all feel a little hurt sometimes if our posts seem to be ignored, or if some of the posters who are known for responding to posters individually by name accidentally forget us. Do people foret their manners in here?? Yes, often they do. And then we can get somewhat defensive. And off we go.... Then we have the "newbies" and the parents of juniors who are now just stepping up to the plate, and are beginning new chapter of this stressful college app. cycle. An emotional time for many. We shouldnt be surprised if it shows.</p>

<p>I have learned a lot over the course of time that I have been on CC. I have changed how I think and how I post. I have gotten to know a few of the "cast of characters", and have gotten familiar with their writing styles. I am also pleased, and not surprised, that Curmudgeon would bring some of his levity to the situation to turn things around...</p>

<p>When I was a newbie I may have been a bit more direct, and I quickly found that wasn't such a great idea. I didn't know the people or how people respond on this forum. I only went by my experiences on professional listservs. Each environment has its own personality.</p>

<p>Doddsmom-
Welcome to CC. It is nice to have other professionals on board (pun intended). However, I must admit that when I read your first post on the "gifted" thread, I thought to myself "uh-oh- this is going to get a reaction". You shared that you have strong feeling about some things, and I anticipated that it would get a response. I did not catch in your screenname that you work for the DOD and are overseas (though I have relatives who work for the DOD-- but I didn't catch it in your name..). I don't know the policies of school psychs inthe government system, or in international schools. I am hopeful that my later post helped to explain, at least from my perspective, how overburdoned school psychologists in general can be, and why they tend to have a different perspective than parents. </p>

<p>I have to leave for the office now, so must run. Suffice it to say this is a learning process for all of us.</p>

14

<p>Thanks for your responses. I intend to look more carefully at my posts before sending so that I don't unintentionally offend. Now intentionally....well that's another story (just kidding).</p>

15

<p>Curmudgeon:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Do you think Marite will come back? I still don't know what that was about.</p></li>
<li><p>When I got my first negative reaction to a post, I remember feeling surprised that the responder didn't understand what tone I was using, and I have modified my posting since in order to try and better convey the tone of my message. Sometimes that just can't be done very effectively. It's certainly a learning process. Sometimes I would rather just avoid posting than spend extra time reposting what I originally meant. I do spend more time than I should visiting CC. Hello, my name is Islandmom and I am addicted.... I now just try to curtail my posts (with the exception of this one) down to only posts where I can directly answer the question asked. Otherwise I'm better off keeping my "mouth" shut.</p></li>
<li><p>I think your perception of our perceptions of you is probably not what most of us perceive. ;) I feel I can usually count on your comments not only for some great insight but also for an occasional laugh. There is certainly no element of the "jackass" in my perception of you. (Okay, maybe I do think of a giant) As I told you before, if you're not already a professional writer I do think that there is a position out there for you in that field.</p></li>
</ol>

16

<p>Hello JYM626,</p>

<p>I just finished reading your post and wanted to respond to what you wrote below:</p>

<p>However, I must admit that when I read your first post on the "gifted" thread, I thought to myself "uh-oh- this is going to get a reaction". You shared that you have strong feeling about some things, and I anticipated that it would get a response. I did not catch in your screenname that you work for the DOD and are overseas (though I have relatives who work for the DOD-- but I didn't catch it in your name..). I don't know the policies of school psychs inthe government system, or in international schools. I am hopeful that my later post helped to explain, at least from my perspective, how overburdoned school psychologists in general can be, and why they tend to have a different perspective than parents. </p>

<p>The week before this post I was approached by parents to evaluate their bright, straight A kid, in the hopes that we could deem the kid disabled so that he could get extended time on the SAT. He had a 1300 and they wanted a higher score so he could get into an Ivy. The kid was horrified that his parents wanted someone to try and "make" him disabled just so he could "scam the system" (quoted stuff are his words to me). He railed against his parent's hypocrisy--don't cheat, it's bad BUT we will cheat for you. The night before this Gifted thread appeared my Husband brought home an article he downloaded from a link referred to on CC (Psychology Today article-not the most reputable of professional journals, but some interesting info. sometimes) about parents trying to take advantage of the system to get accommodations for their kids who weren't really disabled. My experience at school on top of the article.....and then the Gifted Thread. The rest is history. While I tried to preface my posting with the notion that I felt strongly about the topic and that I had professional experiences with parents trying to scam the system it wasn't enough. People felt personally attacked and that certainly wasn't my intent. </p>

<p>I intend to learn from this....not sure what yet.....maybe to not post....maybe only to respond when I can validate the poster....maybe to read responses more carefully and let my more level-headed, laidback husband take a look before I send....maybe to just get over myself and take my licks. :)</p>

17

<p>As to your 1, islandmom, yes, I think Marite will be back. Her voice was clear as a bell and we need her perspective. I think we must have meant something to her, too.</p>

<p>As to your 2, Your strategy is a wise one. On the other hand, I will continue with my pattern of posting only on threads that I know nothing about. </p>

<p>And as to 3,


My head hurts. I think I'll lie down now.</p>

<p>And to you doddsmom (I'll admit to thinking your son's name was Dodd.), remember- horse, gopher holes. </p>

<p>jym, I certainly don't want to even consider that our cafe will ever take on charectoristics of the big cafe. I left part of a lung down there and a fairly large chunk of my :eek:.</p>

18

<p>I was away from the forum for a couple of days due to end of the year band activities with my freshman in hs daughter. I haven't a clue as to what transpired when Marite decided to depart the forum. (I will miss her as I have printed out posts she made concerning the professional heirarchy at universities. Great definitions on types of professors, etc.)</p>

<p>I had to make a legal deposition a few years back, and I will always remember what my attorney said to me beforehand. Black and white print is unforgiving. The transcript does not show your smile, the laugh in the room that your response evoked, etc. Attempts at humor often leave you looking like you have a smart mouth when typed by a court reporter. Although we have the little things we can do here on cc, like typing in lol's and adding smiley faces, sometimes, things still don't translate. I always try to read a post that offends a second time to see if it could be taken differently. Written forums are just harder than discussing things over a cup of coffee.</p>

<p>I do agree that certain subjects do stir up strong feelings. Is a school worth the money? Is an Ivy league education all it's cracked up to be? What do you think about a certain city? (Sure to offend the city's inhabitants if it's negative.) What do you think about a certain school? (Sure to bring out the fans and non-fans alike.) And, the gifted thread is particularly loaded as I think we all see gifted differently. (In my case, I believe God gave us all a gift, and not all can be measured by a test. However, I do recognize that there are those who do believe strongly in the value of gifted testiing.) I guess I am just hoping for a kind and gentle posting place for those needing the invaluable information that can be taken from this forum. Happy posting.</p>

19

<p>RANDOM THOUGHTS and MUSINGS</p>

<p>I have found these recent threads evaluating CC compelling. I too have been reflective about my own involvement. About a month ago I became involved in a spat. At some point, since it was a parent's board, I neglected to consider that I was dealing with a HS student, albeit a profoundly bright and articulate one that sounded like she already had a Ph.D. in writing. I stopped responding, then apologized for my immaturity with a mea culpa. For days I felt poorly about my role in this. I had to use all my strength not to return to that thread...too much temptation. Having never been on a board before I regretted choosing "dogs" for my name. It was just the first word that popped up since we own one. I then came to realize that being called by this name in and of itself made me a little defensive since its more or less an insult. It also seemed to imply I was male and that felt weird. I looked on the CC tools to see if I could restart and change my name but there is no opportunity to do so even if I switched to my H's email address. So I am stuck. I came to this board last year while my first S was completing HS. I returned this year ostensibly to offer help to others and learn what has or hasn't changed as we have another coming up. Instead I discovered the addicting quality of CC. </p>

<p>I note that the controversial subjects revolve around hot button issues like AA, legacies, class, money- subjects that are rarely tolerated as points of real life discourse. I have tried to steer a little clearer of these so as not to offend or be misunderstood. I am ashamed to admit to a kind of voyeuristic quality since I seem to enjoy observing other's arguments when a subject lacks any personal passion on my part.</p>

<p>Initially Mar's leaving shocked me as I too value her input. Another side of me was curious to know the story. (I'm still clueless) On the other hand, I began to wonder if this wasn't actually a healthy decision on her part. After all, this can be addicting and I have found myself wondering about what draws me to this forum. In some ways I feel it allows be to maintain a glimpse of the life of my college age son during a time when I have been distanced as he continues to mature into an independent young adult. </p>

<p>These random thoughts and musing may be both irreverant and irrelevant. However, I appreciate 95% of the comments here and have found this community to be overwhelmingly civil considering that we are dealing with a time of transition and turmoil. Thanks to all, really.</p>

20

<p>Doddsmom, the ashes of that thread are still warm. The problem was not with the content of your post, which was a factual contribution to the topic under discussion, and was not directed towards any one person in particular. (In fact, you even stated that this is what you tell real-life people in your practice.) Then, you expressed a clearly stated opinion. Your contribution combined professional and personal perspectives. It was a valid as any other post. It seemed that your post was taken personally and those who chose to take offense did so quite forcefully. The thread was emotionally heightened from the very first post, as several issues in the poster's life were coming to a head. In this case, there were quite a few levels of concern raised initially, which people attempted to address from their own perspectives. The discussion format became overwhelmed, conflicts arose, and things deteriorated. Maybe the original post was broad enough that the format just couldn't handle it effectively. When the G-word is part of the mix, we need to be prepared for extra heat.</p>

<p>What I took from the meltdown that ensued from that thread is for posters to be as specific as possible and for contibutors to try to address the original post. Sometimes it's a challenge to read between the lines of the original post. And when posters ask for lots of ideas, which are then offered, they need to be open to the suggestions they receive. We need to cut people a little slack. We don't need to take umbrage (to borrow the phrase from another thread) with every little thing.</p>

<p>Sometimes we respond to the original post, and sometimes to the discussion that the post has inspired. It is hard to address complicated topics when one is not on-line all day; it can be like playing telephone tag. </p>

<p>Keep posting! Share your thoughts. I'm interested in what you have to say.</p>