Maybe not the place to ask this...

Parents Forum
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<p>My sophomore students are signing up for next year's classes. Many of them feel comfortable asking me for input. These are kids who are taking 4-5 AP classes junior year, and looking at 5-7 senior year, all with a view to competitive college applications. </p>

<p>I'm trying to encourage them to take a very challenging course load, but not SO challenging that if they don't get into the competitive college of their choice they feel they "wasted" their time and missed out on other things. (I've seen that feeling here, and it makes me sad). My own son will take 6 AP's next year on top of the 4 he took this year, but I know he's doing it because he wants to, not because of some brass ring he thinks he's earning by doing so.</p>

<p>So. Your the parent of one of these sophomores. In their minds, you probably know less than the teacher (remember we're talking 15 year olds, so the teacher doesn't know much, either...). What do you want your child to hear from his/her teacher?</p>

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<p>I would like my child to hear, 'It is OK to switch to the honors level if you feel overwhelmed.'</p>

<p>At my kids' school, once the scheduled was set, it was not changable without a decree from the Pope AND the director of the NIH!</p>

3

<p>Leave time for EC's/ outside activities you are interested in. More AP's is not necessarily better, if grades suffer or students get burned out in the process.</p>

4

<p>Oops. "you're the parent," not "your"....
Why can't we edit our posts forever?</p>

<p>And you're right about moving to honors if it's the best thing for the student.</p>

5

<p>Assuming they are asking with an eye toward college: I would tell them they can knock themselves out, and it may amount to nothing, so take what you like and will enjoy. If you relish the difficult challenge and more advanced material, by all means, go for it, as an end unto itself, not as a means to an end.</p>

6

<p>I'd ask the student what is their fun class? What class adds to mental health and enjoyment? My daughter needed her art classes. She would hum and sing while painting. Everyone needs some class that makes them smile just by walking into the room. Could be band, woodworking, small engine repair, or chemistry. Find the joy.</p>

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<p>Wow! D's school doesn't even offer that many AP classes and they're a big nationally ranked HS. Why would they take that many???? Kids here get in to all the top ranked colleges (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc) but usually only have 7-8 total when graduating. AP Offered at our school: US Hist, Euro Hist, Eng Lang, Eng Lit, Chem, Calc, Physics, Psych, Stats.</p>

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<p>no AP foreign languages?</p>

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<p>I'd say "Great, go ahead, but make sure you leave time for any sports or other ECs you're interested in as well and make sure you leave some room for fun". AP classes aren't necessarily that difficult for some students and they can still carry a full load of AP classes Junior and Senior years and still do sports and other ECs without much of a problem. For some kids at some schools, it's the only way they can take reasonably challenging courses.</p>

<p>I'd stay away from the 'wasted' comment since it implies that taking an AP class that doesn't result in a selective college admit is a waste and that it has no other value. I'm sure you didn't mean it this way but it can come across this way. They should consider taking the class because they're interested in it and because they need that level of challenge - not just to gain admission to a top college (although it's beneficial for that as well).</p>

<p>NorthMinnesota: A few more - AP Spanish (or other language), AP Computer Science (my kids' HS didn't have this), AP Bio, AP Studio Art</p>

10

<p>At my son's hs, arguably the best in the state, there are about 6-8 AP classes and no honors classes. Son took AP French and AP english jr year--great classes he loved. Then AP Calc and Gov sr year. He loved the Gov. He had time to do some wonderful EC's, have a bit of a social life and even get some sleep. I worry about the kids doing full time AP's for 3 or 4 years. This is an escalating cycle in highly competitive areas of the country that I don't personally think is healthy. There are plenty of great colleges that don't require this level of frenzy.</p>

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<p>"Assuming they are asking with an eye toward college: I would tell them they can knock themselves out, and it may amount to nothing, so take what you like and will enjoy. If you relish the difficult challenge and more advanced material, by all means, go for it, as an end unto itself, not as a means to an end." (jnsq)</p>

<p>amen.</p>

12

<p>Hi mom2three</p>

<p>Just trying to fill in the blanks</p>

<p>How is the AP program run in your school? </p>

<p>Does the student need a certain over all gpa or a certain grade in a particular course?</p>

<p>Are there any pre-recs that the students must take before taking AP courses?</p>

<p>If a student signs up for an AP course, is the exam mandatory?</p>

<p>Does your school weigh grades? If yes, then how much weight is given to AP classes?</p>

<p>Does your school rank using the weighted GPAs?</p>

<p>Are honors courses offered as an option? If yes, are they weighted? </p>

<p>thanks</p>

<p>S</p>

13

<p>"You will do better and be equally impressive to colleges if you take what you want to take. Challenge yourself because you want to challenge yourself. Not taking all AP classes will not keep you out of an excellent college. There is a college out there for you. Look beyond the 'name' of the college and find the one that fits you. If a school won't take you because you didn't want to take [AP Chem or AP Math or AP French or whatever AP it is], is that a school you would want to go to anyway?"</p>

14

<p>(NOTE - this is an example - not all kids do the exact same thing...) This is a magnet program for math, science and technology. Junior year lots of kids take AP English, AP American History, AP Computers A or AB, and the kids who were in the math magnet in middle school can take AP Calculus AB or BC. Senior year my son is considering AP Literature, AP Psychology, AP Economics and AP American Government, AP Physics, and AP Calc BC ( he's in calc AB this year). He'd still have one "fun" elective to play with, since Economics and American Government are one semester courses. Also offered at our school are AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Spanish, and AP Statistics (that I can think of)</p>

<p>The kids who are in this program are pretty much 'prequalified' to take the AP classes they want. I know our school is also using the College Board AP Potential information from the PSAT and other strategies to find non-magnet students who would benefit from AP and honors courses.</p>

<p>The AP courses are weighted, so it is a plus for the GPA. Honors are also offered, and weighted, although not as much as AP. If the kids take the AP class, as far as I know they have to sit for the exam. Not 100% sure of that.</p>

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<p>What I would like is for the selection process to have some personalization (I know it's not all about my kid) because one size doesn't fit all.</p>

16

<p>Your school sounds a lot like my daughter's high school. Your son's theoretical senior course load is identical to my daughter's, except she's taking AP Spanish instead of his AP Government, and AP Econ is an entire year (micro one semester, macro another). She's also in wind ensemble, which is a graded class. AP and Honors classes are weighted the same (strange that they are), and are a plus for the GPA. No one has to sit for the exam. Furthermore, you can take the exam without taking the class. </p>

<p>This is a rough schedule. Most seniors end up taking a class pass/fail. Still, even doing well in this scenario guarantees nothing, so only do it if you love it.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
AP and Honors classes are weighted the same

[/quote]

But, some colleges (including the UCs) do their own HS GPA calculation so whereas a particular honors class might have been weighted in the HS, it might not weight in the college's GPA calculation.</p>

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<p>Like your son, my son took 6 APs senior yr (AP Calc BC, AP Physics C, AP Comp Sci AB, AP English Lit or Lang, AP Statistics, AP Psychology). He had previously taken AP Bio, AP Chem, AP US Hist. He did this against our wishes. We advised him it was too much but it was what he wanted to do. He was interested in these subjects and had already taken a year of the sciences & comp sci at the honors level (he doubled up in science classes). Our students take 8 classes a yr so there's still time to fit electives in. I know he had a few music classes and a theater class. Again, some kids don't take any electives because they aren't weighted and can actually lower your GPA (even with a 100 in the class). My son didn't "play the game" and took what interested him, regardless of GPA. In fact, he knew AP Lit was not a strength and he would not earn a top grade (teacher is known to be demanding) but he felt he would learn something and he loved the class (and yes, got Bs all yr long).</p>

<p>Some kids are overwhelmed with the reading/workload of these courses and should NOT take more than 2 a yr. My d was one of those so she only signed up for 2 senior yr. She even had to drop down to Honors level when she got mono. Luckily, our HS allows students to drop down but they can't move up. She could not have coped with a full courseload of APs. She would fuss over every little detail and make her assignments/studying fit the amount of time she had so no matter what, she felt stressed. Does that make sense? So, for a kid like her, I would advise limiting the workload to enjoy life a bit. She also played sports and was involved in all kinds of ECs.</p>

<p>For kids like my son, the critical thing was that he was still enjoying life with that workload (was in all kinds of clubs, did volunteer work, even took weekend classes for no credit at Columbia U and played bball and tennis whenever it was nice out). One interesting thing: he found his theater class difficult. Not academically, but in so many other important ways (learning to open up, be vulnerable, nervous). I think that was the best choice he could have made because he learned to respect kids who are successful in areas he struggles with. </p>

<p>At our HS, some kids take more than they can handle because taking 1-2 APs senior yr (many kids don't take APs until senior yr) really doesn't constitute taking the most challenging curriculum possible and if applying to top colleges, it really is essential to have that designation. But there are many, many fine schools who would consider a kid who took a very difficult curriculum, even if it's not the most difficult. If a school doesn't offer APs, it won't hurt a student who doesn't have them on their transcript but if a school offers about 25 APs like ours does, then top colleges do expect you to challenge yourself.</p>

<p>I think course selection should be an individual thing, based on the student's interests and learning style and college goals. The very top colleges shouldn't be the only goal. That just sets kids up for a letdown, given just how many qualified students are rejected. </p>

<p>Kids who excel in the AP classes are the ones who are intersted in the material. It's sad to see how many kids are pushed through HS by their parents. Kids are under so much pressure and ultimately miserable. The kids who are totally stressed out by having multiple APs may struggle in a top academic college if they are admitted. Not that a bit of a struggle is a bad thing, but for some kids, that could be devastating. My son has commented on how demanding his college classes are (Brown) and how hard and how often kids study (granted they have a lot of fun too). This is a kid who didn't spend a whole lot of time studying and always put the books away when a game (bball, baseball, football) came on. He enjoys the challenge at college but I think it surprised him a bit. Not sure how a kid who couldn't handle 2 APs at once would handle the 1000 pages of reading assigned in college. Top colleges may teach the same thing as less academic schools, but they demand a lot more from their students. </p>

<p>So, I would advise parents and kids to form realistic expectations. Success means different things to different people and there are many routes to get there. So, in HS, take a courseload that challenges you but doesn't overwhelm you, find time to explore your world and yourself, and take advantage of all the opportunities (ECs) that interest you. HS is a time to grow, in all ways, not just academic areas. Don't forget to enjoy life along the way.</p>

19

<p>I have one kid who took three APs a year starting soph year. All 5s, no going crazy, did lots of other things as well. </p>

<p>My other kid found out today that an AP class he wanted to take next year is being cancelled due to insufficient enrollment. Is debating taking a non-honors class that he is interested in instead (but is related to the area he wants to study in college). </p>

<p>He wants to spend more time doing his ECs next year and will enjoy this class as a interesting break from an otherwise very stressful IB workload. I think he's a pretty smart kid. :) As the commercial says, sanity makes a comeback.</p>

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<p>What I wanted my kids to hear: "I feel confident you can do anything you set your mind to."</p>

<p>What they actually heard: "You need all A's to get into a good college."</p>