<p>dmd77, my son had some Bs and was accepted to Duke, Brown and Yale. Granted his standardized testing was tops, but he wasn't in the running for val or sal (top 2%). ECs were strong because he had fun and participated in things he was truly interested in.</p>
<p>Funny, they sure are not getting the all A's message from me. I've been trying to encourage them to take the courses they really want to, and think they'll enjoy, and make sure they have a balance for themselves so that high school is a good experience.</p>
<p>In my program it's not so much about encouraging kids to take the AP's. Peer pressure (for lack of a better word) pushes them, because all the other kids are taking these challenging courses, and it just seems the thing to do. I just want them to find a good balance.</p>
<p>My own son is thinking about giving up his one "fun" elective senior year to take another AP class. This is NOT a kid who is applying to the Ivies next year. He's mostly interested in our state U's. I really need to talk to him and find out WHY he wants to take such a heavy load. If it's too challenge himself, that's fine. If it's because admissions this year were a bloodbath and he thinks he has to, that's different...</p>
<p>My son is a sophomore and has already set his schedule for junior year. Our HS offers 14 AP courses, but really only 2 are generally available to juniors: APUSH and AP Eng Language. He's been in all honors courses Fresh & Soph year and he's chosen to take AP Eng Lang next year, but stay with Honors US History. When he was considering his junior year schedule, we suggested he also look ahead and map out his senior year too. Right now it looks like he'll take AP Eng Lit, AP Physics, AP Calc BC, AP Stat, AP Psychology, AP French and a 1 semester Civics reqmt (and PE).</p>
<p>In our HS there are honors courses at each level, (well, except in languages where French & Spanish IV are just offered at the AP level), as well as the regular "academic" and then "core" levels. There does not seem to be any cultural or institutional pressure to load up on AP courses. I know that my son is planning on so many his senior year because that is the correct "challenge" level for him. We've already told him that we don't have a strong opinion on it, and in fact would not mind seeing him take a little lighter load. His internal level of pressure is pretty high and we find ourselves always encouraging him to relax.</p>
<p>Top students each year get accepted by Cornell, Dartmouth, UPenn, Yale, etc. etc. I know of at least two of the class of 2008 who will attend Princeton (one on a full scholarship). Every year seniors seem to do fine on Ivy admits even with our limited list of APs. </p>
<p>I would hope that the teachers and counselors would be able to recognize both the ability level of each student and their level of interest in pushing themselves, while recommending appropriate levels of courses. I don't care what they call the class, as long as it is interesting and challenging to my kid.</p>
<p>Wow - I just posted the problem my D is having because her school very rarely allows a student to take more than four AP's. The thought of a student taking 6-7, and still having the time to be passionate about an EC or two or a sport that competitive schools look for is to me almost impossible...totally agree with the OP here...</p>
<p>I don't know...when my older son was a senior in hs he had a good number of friends who took 5-6 AP classes because that was the appropriate level of class for them. They all also seemed to be in leadership positions with school clubs/activities, had outside ECs, and almost everyone played at least one sport. I think that some kids just can handle it and should be allowed to take as many AP classes as they want (and their grades and track record demonstrate that they can handle).</p>
<p>My older son did not load up on APs (none his junior year; 3 his senior year) and only took those that applied to his interest in aerospace engineering and aviation. Altho brilliant, across the board he is just more laid-back. And athough we and his teachers and counselors pushed him to work harder, he just wasn't interested. He did have plenty of time for his wide range of ECs, a job and a starring role in the spring musical, but so did his friends in all those AP classes. </p>
<p>I still think it depends on the student and hopefully high schools will have some flexibility in allowing students to tailor appropriate schedules.</p>
<p>I think our HS offers all of the AP classes. Right now senior year my daughter has AP Calc BC, Honors Physics (prep for the AP Physics B class), AP English Lit, AP Gov, an Honors musical ensemble, AP Micro Econ (took Macro last term), a language course at a nearby college, and jazz band. The easy or fun classes are the physics and the band, but she's enjoying econ and lit quite a bit, I think. I had advised AP Calc AB, an easy A for her, and I definitely did not want her to take AP Gov, but no... And she's senior class president, takes lessons on two instruments, and has additional time-consuming extracurricular. I know a lot of you have kids like her. She has to take AP tests for any AP class she took. AP grades are weighted. The school doesn't rank.</p>
<p>She is often sleepy. My husband and I get worn out just watching her. But she's pulling A's in everything except for the BC Calc, which will be a B, and that is fine. She had said she wanted this schedule because she is sointerested in the classes, but I think that in addition to this, it is also a sort of herd mentality or unusual peer pressure in the smart kids group at her high school. "Are we taking AP xxx?" "Of course we are!" One for all, All for one, Sleep for none. At a recent doctor's appointment, a resident sat in, and when the doc was quizzing to my daughter about what she was up to, the resident was in dumbfounded, had never heard of a kid taking so many AP classes, and the doctor, who is familiar with our high school, told the resident there are 50 kids like her at the high school - true.</p>
<p>It turns out that she will be going to a college that is pretty nice about accepting AP Credit, so I think she'll be able to do a junior year abroad without any worries about whether she can graduate in four years. So, there is some pay off for the late nights. And she says she doesn't regret taking so many AP classes. She likes the classes, she likes her teachers, she likes her classmates.</p>
<p>If my son wants to take this many AP's his senior year, I will try harder to talk him out of it, I think, especially if his extracurricular load is heavy. He has a more laid back attitude though, so I don't think he'll be pushing to overload himself. I really think this is too much.</p>
<p>This all blows me away. My son took 2 AP's and got into an excellent school. His college roommate didn't take any APs.</p>
<p>At our hs, there are no AP's available before Jr year, and most are available only Sr year. My son knew one kid who took 5 APs as a Sr and everyone (including us) thought he was crazy. Kid had his heart set on Yale and didn't get in. The most accelerated students generally take 2 APs Jr year and 3 Sr year, total of 5.</p>
<p>Sometimes I wonder, do other schools call classes "AP" when our hs calls them honors? If you don't take an AP class at the end of the same year you take the class, we don't call it AP. (Example, US History 1 top level is honors, US History II offers both AP and Honors).</p>
<p>
[quote]
The thought of a student taking 6-7, and still having the time to be passionate about an EC or two or a sport that competitive schools look for is to me almost impossible
[/quote]
But it depends on the person. All of my D's classes junior and senior years were APs (6 Junior, 5 senior - she'd taken all the math they offered by Junior year hence one less class senior year). She was also a starter in a varsity sport, was on the academic league, completed her GS gold award, and still had time to do other things. These AP classes aren't always as dire as they sound.</p>
<p>I should have made it clear: my kids are now out of college. Both of them had some B's (my son even had one C) and went to excellent colleges (my D went to Reed and my son went to MIT). But their teachers pushed GRADES rather than learning and the enjoyment of learning, and I thought that was sad then, and I still think it was sad. (My son did take six APs through his junior year; he went to college at the end of his junior year, but his senior year would have been seven APs.)</p>
<p>At Reed, my daughter had the option of not seeing her grades, and chose not to see them at all, throughout her four years there. All we know is that she had a 3.0 or better average, because her advisor signed the form for her car insurance, every semester.</p>
<p>I think it really does depend on the kid. My son went the IB diploma route and I believe he took only one AP designated class (AP Calc BC). He took 8 classes every semester except freshman year, which in his HS meant that he had no lunch period and had to eat lunch during classes. His "fun" classes were his music classes, which he absolutely would not give up even if it lowered his class rank. Why did he do it, because he loved the challenge of the IB/AP courses and the intellectual challege of the other students who take these kind of courses. One of the things that he hated about his middle school classes were the class clowns and others who disrupted the classes so that little was taught.</p>
<p>Lest you think he was a complete drudge, he was in at least one extra-curricular choir each semester, performed or crewed for each of the school's three theater performances each year (including the lead in this past Fall's musical), was in three non-school musical theater performances (including the lead in the current musical), got his Life Scout (and hopefully his Eagle), played tennis for a year, and received his second-degree black belt.</p>
<p>Did we think he was crazy to take on all of these ECs given his course load - of course! Would he cut back, yes to a small degree. He wouldn't continue with tennis because it conflicted with the school musical, he didn't continue with Tae Kwon Do because his school changed ownership, and his has missed a number of camping trips with scouts because of scheduling conflicts.</p>
<p>He arrives at school at 6:30 a.m. and we are lucky to see him before 5:00 p.m. He did admit that this semester he feels a bit stretched (!) and is getting a fairly good case of senioritis, but is determined to maintain his 4.0 average. And next month he will be taking 5 AP tests and 5 IB tests (3 HL and 2 SL) and the IB HL tests are usually two one-half day tests.</p>
<p>Your kids know themselves and their limitations better than you probably do. Let them stretch themselves as much as they can handle. Do encourage them to take classes that interest them, rather than classes that they think will impress XYZ school. (Although make sure they are taking the classes that they need for any school that they think they want to apply to. Most top colleges and the UC system have certain minimum numbers of years of some subjects that you must take.) I think ECs are easier to cut back on, but some kids live for their ECs (and passion for ECs can make up for a less challenging academic schedule). If your kid truly wants one of the top 10 colleges, he/she will probably have to have a very challeging academic schedule (maybe not hardest, but hard), great SAT scores and a passionate EC (or two). Once you're past the first 10 to probably the top 40 schools you will still need a challeging academic schedule, good SAT scores and a passionate EC. I would not discourage a kid from taking an AP class that they really wanted to take unless I was absolutely certain that they could not handle it.</p>
<p>"A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for."
- Oliver Wendal Holmes</p>
<p>Hat</p>
<p>
[quote]
"A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for."
- Oliver Wendal Holmes
[/quote]
Actually, those words were penned by Robert Browning.</p>
<p>Bless you Chedva.</p>
<p>To the OP's question, I don't know we need to tell our kids anything about this. I think they have the information they need.</p>
<p>My kids wanted all AP's because they wanted to stay with this peer group. It wasn't to impress adcoms. My son had 10 AP's, my daughter 8.</p>
<p>At our school, sophomores often take AP Bio and AP US History.</p>
<p>I kind of like the requirement that they take the AP test for any AP class they take.</p>
<p>"Sometimes I wonder, do other schools call classes "AP" when our hs calls them honors? "</p>
<p>Most AP classes are extremely challenging at our HS and do a good job of "teaching" the subject. I read on CC about all the time kids spend preparing for their AP & SATII exams and I'm amazed. My son never really studied for these. He reviewed his class material but said he felt prepared because he understood the concepts all yr long. Other than a couple 4s, he received all 5s on his APs and 750+ on the related SATII exams he took the same week as the APs. </p>
<p>I think it's entirely possible for kids to get admitted to top schools without APs, but only if the HS doesn't offer them. But our school offers a wide choice and I don't think kids NEED to take 6 a year. I think my son would have achieved the same results with 3/yr. But that's not why he chose 6 senior yr. He's always been the type to complain there isn't enough time in the day to take all the classes he wants. He's complaining about the same thing now at college. </p>
<p>With 2 kids visiting lots of colleges in the past few years, I've heard adcoms at every school insisting that the most important thing is curriculum, taking a challenging courseload, and obtaining good grades. Standardized test scores aren't nearly as important. I do think some kids overdo, thinking it will impress. I believe Stanford actually discourages doing that (according to their website).</p>
<p>I think we need to listen to the kids though. My d's friend really strugged in her APs and should have dropped down to Honors level. Apparently her family wouldn't allow that. She wound up hating her classes and feeling completely overwhelmed. Way to kill the spirit. Kind of like having a kid all excited to learn to read and then insisting they read chapter books, when they're not ready or interested.</p>
<p>How can high schools kids be taking 6 or 7 college level classes when college kids only usually take 5!</p>
<p>Well, at our school most AP classes last one year. They meet 5 hours per week. Most college classes meet 3-4 hours/week, and last one semester. So since the work is spread over more than twice the amount of time, I guess it's manageable.</p>
<p>Our HS AP classes are also spread out over one year, for 90 min every other day (A/B block scheduling). I'm not sure if anyone else took 6/yr but a very small group will take 4-5 senior yr. I think there were 7 kids in BC Calc since most kids opt for the easier AB level. Calc is offered senior yr. Honors level, AB level or BC level. BC covers it all so moves at a much faster pace.</p>
<p>the courses being offered over the course of a year.</p>
<p>Here's a question for the OP: what's your son doing in AP classes if he's clearly not interested in doing the work?</p>
<p>I just reread all my posts on this thread. Not sure where the impression was given that my son doesn't want to do the work. Unless the fact that son isn't seeking hyper-selective colleges gave that impression. In fact, my guess (that I stated here) is that he is choosing the classes to challenge himself.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm trying to encourage them to take a very challenging course load, but not SO challenging that if they don't get into the competitive college of their choice they feel they "wasted" their time and missed out on other things. (I've seen that feeling here, and it makes me sad). My own son will take 6 AP's next year on top of the 4 he took this year, but I know he's doing it because he wants to, not because of some brass ring he thinks he's earning by doing so.
[/quote]
If he likes the materials of the AP courses, I would say took more in Junior years instead of senior year. For reasons:
1) If he is doing well in all AP courses, by the beginning of senior year, he will have a very strong transcripts for his EA/ED application.
2) Unless you can provide some helps in his application process (even just college searching/select, book keeping, etc.), the first half of senior year he probably will be overwhlmed by college applying process and keeping up the grades at the most heavy course load in his HS carrer, because college needs to see you mid year reports.</p>
<p>It also depends how the course quality of AP class in your HS. In ours, the standard AP exams are relative easy compare to the a mount of work come with the AP courses.</p>