<p>it all depends on the expectations. If the goal is the best possible education and not just getting As ... then there isn't a problem. Many of the gifted schools as well as the top boarding school actually do not give grades and they do not compute class placement either. They do give an indication how you are doing though. Their placements in college are based on the school's reputation/past successes and the rec from the GC/teachers which are based on overall performance. Many do not offer AP classes because they think it limits the educational experience. But it is generally understood by colleges that at these schools most all of their classes would be considered honors classes at other HSs.</p>
<p>I guess the goal is to get the emphasis off the grades and on to the learning.</p>
<p>I just worry that there is too much untapped potential with all of these smart straight A kids. Now of course I am grossly generalizing but you must admit it is quite amazing the number of "top" students.</p>
<p>There truly should only be a few hundred ... maybe a thousand ... at the top ... I guess we are just not sure where that top is any longer ... time to move it up.</p>
<p>what do you think ... this is obviously a stream of thought ... not a fine tuned argument.
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<p>I love learning, but trust me, I wouldn't try nearly as hard if I was not graded. Grades are a necessary part of education in my opinion.</p>
<p>How do AP classes limit learning experiences? AP US history was one of the best learning experiences I've ever had. As was AP calculus. </p>
<p>Why is there untapped potential with all these straight-A kids?</p>
<p>MQD, I think you were addressing me with your last post. :) I agree with the premise that the emphasis should be taken off grades and given to learning. Having gone to a hyper competitive suburban public school I know exactly what it means to have people forget about learning and care about that almighty-A. For this reason, our school removed class rank, but still, the competitiveness was not tangibly diminished. However, I think removing grades or something similar would be a mistake for 2 reasons. 1 reason is that people will naturally get less competitive and there will be less learning of information, granted the kids who truly love learning will rise to the top but will be brought back by their lazy peers-class can't move as fast or be as interesting with lazy peers. Another reason is, at one point in one's life one must learn how to "get the job done". I think memorizing pointless facts or something similar while not enriching academically is still enriching in a way. Fact is, there is going to come a time in everyone's life when a person has to work hard in a mind-numbing way. The problem is, people confuse education with mind-numbing which is sad but true to an extent. I do agree with the main point, that students should love to learn. As for there being only 1000 top students, there are many talented youth in America. Frankly, I think there are only 1000, probably less, "Top Top" with a capital 'T' students, but I believe there can be many "top" students. I think in college, kids will truly and hopefully find their niche, and truly tap into their potential. I'm not sure if high school is the right time to do that or even capable of doing that though.</p>
<p>Cervantes wrote: " I think removing grades or something similar would be a mistake ,,,(b/c) ... there will be less learning of information."</p>
<p>That is undoubtedly true, in the short term. My belief is that infomation memorized for the sake of an exam will be quickly forgotten... it is registered in a short term portion of the brain reserved for school exams. There is no connection to the long term areas of memory that are screened for entrance by an emotional connection to the information.</p>
<p>Beyond this, waht relationship has learning of information with learning?</p>
<p>cervantes ... I had not thought of the learning that is gained by mind numbing work ... good point. The no grade situation really only works in a very controlled environment with kids that are motivated for a variety of reasons. In the private schools I was thinking of ... there still was tremendous competition but not around grades ... it was based around winning special prizes, having special talents, being accomplished, giving back etc. etc. The one school I know of where it works well has about 550 kids. Yes idealistic ... </p>
<p>Grades are very tangible and useful ... so how do you get kids to stretch beyond the grades??? I guess maybe this is really a developmental matter ... hopefully it happens in college??</p>
<p>I think gap years should become the norm so kids can get off the tread mill, breath a bit and take a few risks ... </p>
<p>Brown man ... I'll bet it might take you some time to adjust but you would be just as motivated without grades... being curious is being curious. I think you just might get bored sitting around ... ;) </p>
<p>AP classes are great but they teach to the book limiting the ability to take a different path from the norm. I do not think AP classes are bad but when at least one of the top three NE boarding schools does not offer AP ... makes you pause.</p>
<p>I wonder how many straight A students could actually achieve much higher... maybe our scale is too low. I happen to know two such boys ... they earned As and 800s without studying graduating from a tough private hs. Everyone praised them... almost like young gods. It all came so easily. They were never challenged and it became an issue for both in their 20s. They actually were both kind of intellectually lazy and depression set in.</p>
<p>I feel like I am starting to ramble. </p>
<p>When there aren't any grades until the end ... such as at Reed, the kids work really really hard. They work to their capacity and often times they technically overdo it. if they had been given midterms ... they may have slacked off .. </p>
<p>I actually think APs are a great tool in a world where teaching ability and schools vary greatly. They are great levelers. You can get APs on line now through UCIrvine. Each class costs $500+- and you get a fabulous class with great online support. Also UCCP (UC College Prep) sponsored by the UCs offers additional resources for kids who attend schools without good APs ... an attempt to level the playing field ... UCCP is free and offers great study guides and are available anytime.</p>
<p>MQD, wait, this UCI online AP, that is just a class,right? Not the AP test? Because as we know, the AP tests have traditionally only been given once a year, unfortunately. I do wish that wasn't the case. It limits how many AP tests you can realistically prepare for at one time. If you didn't take any AP tests each year in high school, it's really not possible to 'catch up' and take several all at once at the end of high school--right?</p>
<p>An aside unrelated to this by rather to an earlier post: I recall a freshman biology teacher saying disgustedly, "what, you just delete it off your hard drive as soon as the test is over?", when he was trying to relate the current material to material already taught and tested on, and all he saw were blank expressions on the student audience's faces.</p>
<p>If a student is at a generic state university, then he probably didn't do so well in high school. No way can that student be looked down upon if he were to earn straight A's because yes it means he probably was not challenged enough because he did not do so well in high school but he clearly became a lot more responsible of a person and more dedicated to his studies and that transformation has to be applauded...the same way most college admission officers applaud an upward trend in GPA.</p>
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If a student is at a generic state university, then he probably didn't do so well in high school.
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<p>I don't think this is true at all... I know plenty of people who got into Ivies and couldn't afford them, so they took a free ride at their local state U instead.</p>
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When there aren't any grades until the end ... such as at Reed, the kids work really really hard. They work to their capacity and often times they technically overdo it. if they had been given midterms ... they may have slacked off ..
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Point well taken, but most Reed students don't see their grades at all, even at the end of a semester (you must ask to see them). Midterms are commonly given, and receive comments or percentages, but no grades.</p>