<p>from 2006 1,386 blacks applied to Yale and 120 were accepted for an overall admission rate of 8.65%. This statistics is remarkably similiar to the 8.3% overall acceptance rate for everyone else. I post this, bc there seems to be a pervasive sense on here that minorities are benefiting from affirmative action and getting accepted to top colleges, but the stats are right there. At least at Yale the admit rate is about the same. Which begs the question: Does affirmative action really have that great of an impact on college admission?</p>
<p>On a side note, as a minority student I am really surprised that only 1,386 blacks applied to Yale. That's like 6.3% of all applicants (if you assume 22,000 applied). That seems really, really small. Which can be used to counter my earlier point, bc black minorities constitute about 9% of all Yale undergradates. So being black would be akin to a 2.7% boost which is still not significant enough to warrant that yale using affirmative action.</p>
<p>I wish Yale would publish the SAT/ACT scores of admitted blacks and other groups, bc comparision would be much easier. But I would wager that there are at many more than 120 blacks who have scores in the 2200+/33+ range in the nation, although obvious self-selection may occur. What I think it indicates (although not entirely, bc obviously this is speculative) is that race is not a big tip in admission decision, and the ppl who seem to think so may be misguided and overinflate the importance of race.</p>
<p>I think that this is a reminder that just because you are labeled a "minority" does not actually mean getting in to a top school is any easier.
You are absolutely right, in my opinion, to say that "race is not a big tip in admission decision."</p>
<p>It bothers me, as an African American female, when, while i stress about my SCEA Yale application, i hear my friends say that i'll definitley get in because i am "black". It's nice to hear, but is that the reality of it all???</p>
<p>I'm sure that in that group of 1386, most, if not all, are stellar applicants. And this article was from 2006. That's 2 years ago, and each year since, more and more applications have been pouring in! So that number will grow. If yale keeps consistent with its 8.65% admission rate for African Americans -or even reduces it- then it's not all about AA. You really never know what you're up against ;)</p>
<p>Quick question:
Is it true that the first round of Yale application review is done in your REGION only. So in other words, now that my application is being veiwed, i am in 'competition' with only those in my area/region first before i'm copared nationally...right?????</p>
<p>
[quote]
It bothers me, as an African American female, when, while i stress about my SCEA Yale application, i hear my friends say that i'll definitley get in because i am "black". It's nice to hear, but is that the reality of it all???
<p>While I agree that Yale is certainly no Stanford or Columbia in terms of practicing affirmative action, admit rates are relatively misleading (for example, the rates of women vs. men are very different, even though they are likely treated the same. there are just more overambitious rich girls lured in by the "we don't care about SATs" facade). I would like to see average SAT scores and average freshman GPA before you can make anything close to such a conclusion. What evidence is there that the black applicant pool to Yale is not significantly weaker than the white/asian ones?</p>
<p>Dbate: i just read the article, and you slightly misquoted what it said</p>
<p>
[quote]
Of the 1,386 applicants who identified themselves as black when applying for spots in the class of 2010, 120 ended up enrolling as freshmen this year.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It is crucial that the word "enrolling" be highlighted. I'm sure that there were MANY black kids (just like kids of other races) who were accepted, but opted not to attend. Perhaps they got into another of HYPSM,etc,etc and chose to go to one of those. I would venture to say that the number of accepted black students is actually much greater than 120, perhaps even as high as double (because we all know that yale's yield is not even close to 100%).</p>
<p>
[quote]
1,386 blacks applied to Yale and 120 were accepted for an overall admission rate of 8.65%. This statistics is remarkably similiar to the 8.3% overall acceptance rate for everyone else.
[/quote]
This by itself neither proves nor disproves the existence of affirmative action at Yale. I am afraid you misunderstand the idea of Affirmative Action. It's objective is not to have/accept/hire a disproportionate number of minorities but to accept a proportionate number of minority/majority applicants which seems to be just the case at Yale.</p>
<p>In practical terms if usually means giving preference to a less qualified minority candidate over a better qualified non-minority one. Therefore if for example the average SAT of white/asian applicants accepted to Yale is 2300 and the average sat of accepted minority applicants is also 2300 then you can safely conclude that Yale is not practicing Affirmative Action. But if as I suspect the pool of minority candidates is somewhat weaker and the average SAT of accepted minority applicants is 2200 or even lower then it's a clear proof that Affirmative Action is alive and kicking at Yale.</p>
<p>Eating food, I reconginzed teh distinction, but yale has about an 80% enrollment percentage (from what I heard in the SCEA forum) so if 120 represents 80%, that means that 150 minorities were actually admitted, that would mean an acceptance rat of 11%. Which is till only about 2.9% higher than the 8.1% for overall applicants. Which is still rather neglible. In addition considering the fact that it is Yale, the minorities who choose not to attend probably went to Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, or MIT. So they probably had strong numbers and apps as well, so it would be no indication of lesser stats needed.</p>
<p>If we use the tentative 11% acceptance rate for black kids over the 8.1% overall acceptance rate, you realize that you're 36% more likely to be accepted over non-black applicants. This doesn't even include other statistics. </p>
<p>Yale does not have an enrollment percentage (yield rate) of 80%. It is actually closer to 70%. This would mean that about 171 black students were accepted for an acceptance rate of 12.3%. 12.3% is significantly higher than 8.6%. Those numbers show that black applicants are 46% more likely to be admitted than non-black applicants. So without a doubt, affirmative action exists at Yale (Yale has admitted this time and time again, so I don't know why we're discussing this.)</p>
<p>ya know what? These AA debates really got to stop! The truth is that NO ONE can tell you whether ur going to be accepted to Yale or not. The perception that blacks/minorities have an easier time in college admissions stems from the REALITY that they are minorities. especially in high schools where the top students are mostly white/asian, and end up having very similar stats, opportunities, EC's, etc., almost any student who has something RARE to offer is regarded by said peers as being "in" at every college. </p>
<p>To the people who only care about objective data---- SAT's, SAT II's, AP's---- URM's should not be accepted over ppl with higher stats. but if they realized that there are only few URM's who do get high stats (and just b/c u do doesnt mean ur "in" at HYPS). If you want proof, look up "SAT percentiles by race". According to that, 1% of blacks (roughly 1500) got 700 or higher on their SAT M, Wr, and/or Cr. 2% of them got 650+. For the sake of my argument, let's just say that 3000 african american/black students got above 1900 on the SAT. Going by the above data, I’m gonna deduce that on average, the ivy league universities admit approx 250 black students each year. Take this amount and multiply it by 8 [ivies] and you get 2000. If you want to be objective about college admissions, this means that the vast majority of the blacks who get in to ivies do not have stats equivalent to the those of the average white/asian admittee. If you extend this to top 30 schools on a whole, then AA is EXTREMELY evident. Why? b/c there are not enough URM’s with high scores to go around! Colleges want to advertise that they are “diverse” and race is only one way of having this “diversity”. Even if Yale has every color of student in the rainbow, it could still be homogeneous in other areas. Thus, being from a certain ethnicity doesn’t necessarily help or hinder your chances of getting in to HYPS. For top 30 colleges in general, however, AA does have a great impact b/c without it, there would be less than 1% African Americans who attend said colleges.</p>
<p>The overall yield at Yale is more like 70%. Also, black yield is probably less. I find it fishy that Yale refuses to release data on that particular issue (I still love you, Yale, and I forgive you for that!!).</p>
<p>But then again, Yale has the advantage with URMs and poor whites with their SCEA program. Many of them, if accepted to Yale, might choose not to apply to other colleges and go through the whole stressful application process with writing additional essays and paying additional fees...</p>
<p>I know if I were to get accepted to Yale SCEA, I definitely would eliminate like 10 of my 14 school choices - and that includes some Ivies that I might have been inclined to apply/attend had they kept their early programs. (Why, Princeton!?!)</p>
<p>It doesn't hurt to wonder. I'd rather discuss AA then not. Discussion is healthy and without it people will remain ignorant of each others thoughts...thus chaos will ensue...</p>
<p>"I’m gonna deduce that on average, the ivy league universities admit approx 250 black students each year. Take this amount and multiply it by 8 [ivies] and you get 2000."</p>
<p>Wouldn't that suggest each Ivy admitted 250 DIFFERENT students? How many enroll 250?</p>
<p>shrinkrap: sorry, i forgot to account for cross-admits.
bizzyjuddy: AA discussion is great! sometimes even fun! but all the hostility that comes w/ it isn't.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is, most (every?) high-tier schools wants a diverse student body. Bottom line. They think/realize that a diverse student body is necessary for a healthy academic institution. You can't have diversity practicing race-blind admissions, especially not in our present educational system where the "achievement gap" is so large. Does this mean that a "less qualified" student of color is going to get accepted over a "more qualified" white student? Perhaps. But this begs the question, what does it mean to be qualified for a school such as Yale? I'm sure many students who apply to Yale are "qualified" on paper (i.e. by numbers: GPA, SATs, ACTs, etc.). Some are not, regardless of race. There are also other things that might make a student stand out, even with "bad" scores, GPA, etc. For example, if there is a student of color from a tough background who has somehow persevered and "made" it, has good, perceptive essays, stellar recommendations, a notable EC list, but perhaps common scores and a regular GPA, would this kid not add something to the academic environment? Does this kid perhaps not deserve to attend Yale over another student (for the sake of this discussion, let us say this student is white) who has had everything handed to them on a silver platter, who might have high GPA, scores, etc. (like almost every OTHER applicant at Yale), but nothing distinguishing?</p>
<p>I refuse to believe that any school would accept a student who is not in some way qualified to attend that school. No student of color with a bad GPA, bad SAT scores, mediocre essays and recommendations, and common ECs is going to get accepted to Yale. There has to be something about the student of color that makes him or her a viable option for Yale.</p>
<p>I have long come to believe that college admissions has very little to do with the actual applicant than it does with the university. Yes, you have to put the work in during high school to be "qualified" to apply. But once that application is sent, it's not about you, per se, anymore than it is about that college and whether they want you in their university. Yeah, it sucks if they don't want you; but, it's not anyone's fault but theirs.</p>