<p>Yeppers. D1 says there were a number of her upper level math classes that started with 30 or 40 kids and ended up with 6. (And in which she was thrilled to get a B. But she says taking those classes demonstrates persistence and determination to stick with stuff even when things get tough–traits medical schools like to see.)</p>
<p>D2 also says that by the time you get to upper level courses the profs get to know you and the curves are not as killer as in the lower level courses–where they are trying to force out “stoopid people”. D2 calls her upper level math class “fun” and “interesting” and “very useful”.</p>
<p>NOTE: both Ds are doing applied math, not pure, theoretical math. Theoretical math is a whole 'nother animal…</p>
<p>Since older son is a senior majoring in Applied Math, we’re familiar with all that entails. LOL Ugh!! Older son was so glad to finish Boundary Values this week. He tells us that he deserves a trip over the holidays for getting thru that…LOL</p>
<p>Since younger son (the pre-med son) already has a challenging major (Chem Engineering), and his senior year will have interviews and such to contend with, I just don’t see how adding Math as a second major is worth the risk to his GPA. The way I look at it, having math as a minor would be plenty enough math. </p>
<p>Sometimes you can try to do too much, and only have it “bite you in the hiney” by hurting your GPA.</p>
<p>*D2 also says that by the time you get to upper level courses the profs get to know you and the curves are not as killer as in the lower level courses–where they are trying to force out “stoopid people”. D2 calls her upper level math class “fun” and “interesting” and “very useful”.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>I agree about the curves issue…plus, those 400 level classes often are also 500 level classes with grad students in them.</p>
<p>OP asked what non-core classes a pre-med should consider. I think first and foremost given the importance of the MCAT, the student should take adequate classwork to do well on that test. This will vary between students, and a practice MCAT say in sophomore year in undergrad would point to weak areas.</p>
<p>Beyond that, a coherent study in just about anything serious is probably fine. Pick something of personal interest for enjoyment and high grades.</p>
<p>Lastly, having at least 2-3 courses in chemistry and molecular biology is a good idea. It prevents a student from being labeled science-poor, and will be needed for critical literature reading. I do not know current pre-med core, but a fair understanding of statistics and epidemiology is very helpful.</p>
<p>Ahh, the worry over 4xx level classes (off-topic)
My freshman son is taking his first 4xx level math class this semester.
I have to admit I am nervous for him.</p>
<p>*Rejections can come at any stage in the process. (D1 got an auto-reject from a school within 4 hours of submitting her secondary. Same for her BF who is 3.9 GPA/40 MCAT. No way they actually read her pages of essays, reviewed her LORs and made an informed decision in 4 hours…)
*</p>
<p>Curious…did you have to submit MORE money when you submitted the secondary? Do you pay in stages???</p>
<p>* having at least 2-3 courses in chemistry and molecular biology is a good idea. It prevents a student from being labeled science-poor, and will be needed for critical literature reading. </p>
<p>I do not know current pre-med core, but a fair understanding of statistics and epidemiology is very helpful. *</p>
<p>I think the current pre-med core for many colleges is…</p>
<p>Gen Bio I
Gen Bio II
Gen Chem I
Gen Chem II
OChem I
OChem II
Physics I (and maybe II)
Cal I (and maybe II)</p>
<p>(and the above classes with labs)</p>
<p>Will note the suggestion of Molecular Bio, stats, and epidemiology courses… :)</p>
<p>Son has taken BioChem, Cell Biology, Genetics and all of his pre-med core so far - along with his ChemE classes which are in sequence.</p>
<p>And…yea…he’s decided to only minor in math… He realizes now he can include a Bio minor as well…which better serves a pre-med student anyway.</p>
<p>Someone else said that Psych is req’d by some med schools. Don’t know which ones or how rare/frequent that is. </p>
<p>Are there any other odd course req’ts that some med schools require? Best to find out now when son still has some semesters left to include them.</p>
<p>Also…what MCAT study aids do you recommend? Any of those flash cards or practice books?</p>
<p>MCAT Lots of kids like Kaplan and Examcrackers. </p>
<p>Random courses required by some schools include Statistics, BioChem, “humanities” (look at USC-Keck), Psychology (very rare), and Texas state schools require 2 years of bio (but cell and genetics get that). Physics should be a full year and a year of math, too. (AP Credit for Calc 1 and 2 plus stats got my kid plenty of choices.)</p>
<p>Yes. You pay a primary application fee for each school you apply to and if you are given a secondary application and choose to submit it, you’ll pay another fee.</p>
<p>How much the primary and secondary fees are depends upon the school. For example, our state med school waives your primary fee if you’re instate, but the secondary was $200 (higher than any of D’s other secondaries).</p>
<p>If you want to read something really scary, there’s a discussion in the Pre-Med Forum about the cost of applying–which can easily run close to $10,000 or more (depending upon where your student lives and how many school he applies to) if you include prep classes & books, application & misc fees, interview clothing, plane fare, hotels, meals while traveling for interviews, etc.</p>
<p>I’ve been hearing good things about ExamCrackers, too. When I was on my son’s campus for a football game, I ran into 2 seniors that I knew had recently been admitted to med school. Both told me about ExamCrackers - both had gotten MCATs in the mid-30s (34 & 37). </p>
<p>Just looked at Amazon…there seems to be 2 different types of ExamCrackers…one is a “Complete Study Package” consisting of 5 books. The other type also consists of several books but seems to be all questions…titles like…1001 Questions in MCAT in Organic Chemistry.</p>
<p>Are both types good? Or is one better than the other?</p>
<p>*Curious…did you have to submit MORE money when you submitted the secondary? Do you pay in stages??? </p>
<p>Yes. You pay a primary application fee for each school you apply to and if you are given a secondary application and choose to submit it, you’ll pay another fee.
*</p>
<p>Thanks for the explanation! Wow…and to think that your D was rejected with a few hours of paying. I think I might have tried challenging that on my VISA bill and demanded (thru VISA) that the school demonstrate that they did ANYTHING for that money. Of course, that would cause these schools to wait 48 hours or so before rejecting, but I think they might have to credit the money since they wouldn’t have been able to show VISA that they had done anything for that money.</p>
<p>*Random courses required by some schools include Statistics, BioChem, “humanities” (look at USC-Keck), Psychology (very rare), and Texas state schools require 2 years of bio (but cell and genetics get that). Physics should be a full year and a year of math, too. (AP Credit for Calc 1 and 2 plus stats got my kid plenty of choices.) *</p>
<p>What do you mean by “humanities” for Keck? Don’t all students have some humanity courses that they’ve had to take? Are there some in particular that are desired/needed?</p>
<p>Heh, don’t mind me and my compulsive reference-librarian tendencies. (Rationalization-wise, I’m lurking this thread for my pre-med BF. CC is a great/terrible way to procrastinate during finals week.)</p>
<p>Keck counts social science AND humanities, so I don’t have much sympathy. Though it is a good thing to keep in mind if you’re not, like my RA, an engineering/religion double major.</p>
<p>General Biology + Lab 2 semesters/ 3 quarters
General Chemistry + Lab 2 semesters/ 3 quarters
Organic Chemistry + Lab 1 semester/ 2 quarters
Physics + Lab 2 semesters/ 3 quarters
Biochemistry 1 semester/ 1 quarter
Molecular Biology* 1 course
Social Sciences, Humanities, and English Composition** 30 semester hours *** Molecular Biology requirement met by following courses: molecular genetics, cell and molecular biology, advanced cell biology or the equivalent </p>
<p>**Advanced Placement (AP) coursework will not fulfill required courses. All required courses must be completed for a letter grade. **
*</p>
<p>Wow…30 credits of humanities not counting any APs…that would be difficult/impossible for an Engineering major. That’s another year of classes! Engineers are already req’d to take 128-130 credits (which is why they aren’t req’d to take many humanities).</p>
<p>Son won’t be applying to Keck! LOL</p>
<p>(any other schools have this high humanities req’t??)</p>
<p>I totally understand that students can’t/shouldn’t use AP Credits to cover science pre-med req’ts…but what are the guidelines?</p>
<p>1) If a student has AP Bio and AP Chem credits, can he take “higher level” Bio and Chem classes to “make up” for those credits?</p>
<p>2) Aside from USC, can a student use his AP English credits for Frosh Comp? Or does he need to take something else to “make up” for it? My son’s school has a 6 credit “upper division” course req’t that requires a “W” (writing) designation for all majors. Would something like that count?</p>
</p>
He realizes now he can include a Bio minor as well…which better serves a pre-med student anyway.</p>