McGill is so freaking overrated. (DON"T EVEN ARGUE WITH THIS)

<p>FVirile's post was really useful.. I was accepted to McGill, along with U of T and some US universities and am trying to choose one. I'll be majoring in biology (or something more specific like microbiology, neuroscience etc. where available) and will probably go on to pursue an academic career. Now, a research university like McGill looks like a nice fit for me in that sense, but I'm worried that I might not be able to survive in such a competetive crowd (as described in FVirile's post). My academics and study habits are alright, it's not the academic load I'm worried about, it's the competition for the attention of the professors, and resources for research. I'm not the over-ambitious and sleazy type that could/would do everything to get what I want. So the question is, would I be able to survive that competiton? Is it worth sacrificing the reputation and going to a less-known but less crowded research university (say, U of Rochester)?</p>

<p>excuse me bigtwix, i dont know where youre from and i dont really care, but the area around columbia happens to be a great area. i have to say that your remark borders on racism and narrow mindedness. i really wonder if you have the right mindset to attend mcgill.</p>

<p>banana-tree, i think if you plan on staying in academia, u of r is actually just as well known as mcgill. one of my kids graduated from u of r (physics)and one is currently at mcgill (engineering). i think both schools offer a great education and great opportunities, but they are definitely for different types of students. both schools require a degree of independence, but because of u of r's size, it does seem a bit easier to have closer relationships with professors. but, i cant say their advising is any better or their admin is any less bureaucratic. </p>

<p>if you havent visited boh schools, i think you should. i think then you should be able to tell where you would be most comfortable. but it sounds like you know yourself pretty well. i wouldnt worry about u of r's reputation. it is actually quite a competitive school to get into, and although the name recognition isnt the same as mcgills, i think as far as grad schools go, u of r is quite well respected</p>

<p>To Banana-tree: I too had to choose between McGill and U of R, and as you can tell, I chose McGill. </p>

<p>It all boils down to what you want OUTSIDE of school. I didn't want academics to be my entire life (although I still say that first comes school, then comes everything else), so I wanted a social scene to come with the package. </p>

<p>McGill has yet to disappoint when it comes to a social scene. You meet so many different people here, you have so many things you can do (a great benefit to being in the middle of a vibrant metropolitan city, not on the fringe of a ghost-town).</p>

<p>If you really worried about academics, though, and want hand-holding, McGill isn't the place for you. I know at Rochester they have pre-med advisors that'll help you choose your pre-med track/make sure your not choosing the wrong courses; at mcgill, there are no such people. There's a course catalogue (which advisors will literally read to you from), but aside from that...nothing. </p>

<p>By that same vein, you might as well eliminate U of T from the runnings, because you'll get even less attention at U of T (they have ~ 70k students, I believe...don't quote me though. Where as McGill only has ~ 30k total students). You don't need to be an academic over-achiever to do well here, especially in the sciences. You just need to be motivated/interested in what you do. That motivation will push you to do all the things you should do to check your understanding of the materials (i.e. get your webwork done early, do pre-lab work, read after the lectures, etc.) If you don't really give a sh~t, you'll probably do ok, maybe bad (depending what that means to you, though). </p>

<p>Obviously, the last thing about McGill, which has been beaten to the ground now, is grad school recognition. Grad schools know how hard McGill is. You won't lose a competitive footing because of a lower GPA here, of course you have to use reason. A 3.0 here isn't as good a 3.7 somewhere else (maybe a 3.4/3.5). You still need to work hard here, but the effort you put in will show, and will keep you competitive. </p>

<p>p.s. listen to fvirile, he/she said some very eloquent and true things.</p>

<p>Hi Banana tree. Congrats on getting into McGill and UofR.</p>

<p>Over the four years I have been at McGill things have gotten much better. We have many new initiatives to get undergrads engaged in research. There is a whole new office that agressively (not in a scary way but in a very nice way with lots of free food) tries to inform students about te new profs that have been recrutied recently. The Honors program is stellar. You have to apply to get into the Honors program in your junior year and once you are in gettting into a great PhD program is usually not a problem. Three of my friends got into Berkley's molecular biology PhD program (this is over the last three years). One of my friends got into Princton's PhD program, Columbia etc etc.Even is you do not get into the Honors program there are many ways you can be involved in research with different courses. One prof who came here from Stanford told me that there are way more undergrads engaged in research at McGill than at Stanford. The opportunities are there. The nice, helpful people/profs are there. They are just an email away. Plus, your classes are always taught by Professors not by T.A.s which means that some of your classes will be large as Profs do not want to teach both semesters but with time your classes get much smaller.</p>

<p>The competition is not bad at all. While everyon wants to do well, ppl will be helpful. some more than others, some not so at all. I have never heard of pages getting ripped in the libraries or things like that. After first year ppl realise it's better if they all work together, everyone wins. But they will be competitivie. Getting a good GPA is not easy , you have to work diligently but its very,very achieveable to get anything between 3.8-4.0 without relinquishing your social life and without too much stress :)</p>

<p>Advising is quite an issue. But thankfully the Bio dept has a fantastic adviser who sees students from like 9-4 continuously or something ridiculously long like that. The thing is you have to know the right ppl to contact. If you do end up deciding to come to McGill, I can forward you the names of the nicer advisors etc.</p>

<p>It's easy to get overwhelmed but their are a lot more resources now. The current focus is on enriching the undergrad experience. It's an urban campus, lots of great things to do outside of campus, really nice.</p>

<p>On a final note, if you do well here, you have no idea how many doors can open for you. I worked at a Harvard lab last summer, this summer I'll be working at Yale. And I have gotten into Harvard for grad school as well, but will be going to Johns Hopkins.</p>

<p>Goodluck!</p>

<p>To FVirile
McGill Business is one of its strongest program. Also UofT and UBC are ok but Queen's isnt even the best in Canada. why mentioning Queen's
Gourman</a> Report Ranking of Canadian Universities</p>

<p>sorry ginak. never been right in the campus, but just from what ive heard, ive heard it is similar to places like Hyde Park in Chicago, which, I studied at U of Chicago this summer and it wasnt the safest place ive been in in a while.</p>

<p>If it is a nice area, then im sorry, and i was wrong. Enlighten me though, please, about the area.</p>

<p>ginak--I've worked in NYC for 25+ years and went to school there for 7--Your information about the area around Columbia is just plain wrong. It's one of the least safe areas in Manhattan. Given your credibility and/or judgment issue on that, the rest of your post should be questioned as well. Btw, McGill is situated in an area similar to NYU, except that in the case of McGill it is more as if NYU was situated in a combination area that is a blend of midtown and Greenwich Village.</p>

<p>FVirile, thanks for the great posts</p>

<p>BIGTWIX</p>

<p>There's no reason for you to apologize--Your analogy is correct; Columbia is situated in an area similar to that of U of Chicago or in terms of danger even the area surrounding USC. I'm not sure where ginak is coming from on this, but the racism thing may just be projection on his part. Funny how that works. NYU is in a much more desirable area and clearly is more comparable to McGill with respect to their respective environments.</p>

<p>BIGTWIX</p>

<p>btw, most NYers consider Columbia to be in Harlem--Never apologize too soon just because someone comes at you with an attack.</p>

<p>Wow, Swampfox, you really don't like uptown do ya. I keep a low pro, but I had to comment on your hostility toward Gnk. Yo, the 'hood around Columbia isn't the village, and isn't pretty, but I can tell you it's not anymore dangerous than other areas. If you're looking for trouble, you can find it anywhere.</p>

<p>Guys, no need to vehmently argue about which university is located in a better location :) Columbia's Morningside Campus can't beat McGill's downtown location. When I compared McGill to Columbia, I was drawing parallels between the fact that both are pint-sized urban campuses located in densely populated areas of town and can't expand wherever they please. However, Columbia is buying out a chunk of Harlem. And McGill is consolidating all it's hopitals into one big superhospital on a new 43 acre piece of land (to the tune of a billion dollars), which is located nowhere near the downtown campus. Needless to say both plans have been very controversial.</p>

<p>BIGTWIX- You're welcome!</p>

<p>IIID- The Gourman report is ancient. It was published in 1998. Your enthusiasm about everything McGill makes me smile. McGill business has an even more ivy league feel to it than the rest of the faculties. The kids in the program are usually richer than the rest, preen themselve no end :), and the faculty is quite chummy with the rest of the ivy league (the business school plays hockey with Duke, Harvard, Wharton and such; the rest of the Canadian schools just wish they were as chummy). The program is getting overhauled (new dean, lots of money funnelled into the program, overhauled curriculum) and will hopefully be/is on the upswing again. But the truth is when it comes to business education and the actual art of conducting business in Canada, Toronto is where it is at. Montreal used to be the financial capital once upon a time, sadly no longer now (and that has had a lot to do with this question even being debated but things are a changing now!).McGill's business program is not great. However, since the program has been around much longer than the others the alumni are some of the hottest CEOs of some of the hottest companies around and that gives the faculty some bragging rights but that won't be the case forever. Most management kids will admit all this to you; the allure of the McGill name is strong enough to draw them from all over the world :)</p>

<p>As far as rankings go, the Maclean's rankings are what Canadians focus on. For the first 12 years('83-'95 ish) that it came out McGill was ranked No 1.Later with all the Quebec separatism stuff things soured and McGill hovered around the 2nd -3rd spot. Since the past three years McGill has again been ranked No 1 while UofT is currently 'languishing' at No 5. It's funny how No 5 is considered languishing. </p>

<p>With public universities, the economy of the province/city they are located in has a major impact on their performance. Being in Tdot has helped UofT in a number of ways- big companies that fled to Toronto from Montreal have donated heavily in the recent past to Toronto and all this has helped UofT's endowment race past the 1 billion mark.Montreal is on the upswing now. McGill is trying to raise $ 750 million and that will help our endowment and per capita endownment too.</p>

<p>Rankings are dangerous things. Just cuz McGill is No 1 doesn't mean the lifestyle will suit you and that you'll have a good time here.The Maclean's ranking is centred on metrics like student awards, average entering grade, budget etc. Look at the Globe and Mail's report to see what the students say about the University. Coming to McGill and graduating with a bad GPA is not going to help you. Graduating from Queens (which has more of a lac feel) with a great GPA will.</p>

<p>HTH</p>

<p>stealth</p>

<p>Gven the choice, would you choose to live around Columbia or NYU? Regarding the danger around Columbia, I unfortunately know whereof I speak. On the whole, NYC is actually less dangerous than many big cities, but re Columbia the area in which you don't have to be very aware of your surroundings, is a relatively narrow band of streets.</p>

<p>FVirile: Would you list the top five to ten Canadian schools as listed in the Maclean rankings? Thank you!</p>

<p>"WRT to it's intl reputation, North Americans have no idea how well it's regarded around the world. Say Dartmouth, Brown, Duke and you are more likely to be met with blank stares. Don't even try mentioning Queen's or use acronyms like UBC or UofT. McGill has a powerful brand name. Brand names can only get you so far but still.... I can attest to this fact cuz I am an intl student."</p>

<p>McGill is a really good school, but the point that is being made is that it is overrated (not that it sucks). The fact of the matter is that, as an overall academic institution, McGill does not deserve to receive more recognition than Duke, Brown, or Dartmouth. I'm not saying that McGill is bad, but it is overrated. Good for them and their students for granting and getting a degree that is more respected than it should be.</p>

<p>The most recent rankings I found on the Maclean's website:</p>

<p>Medical Doctoral
1. McGill
2. UBC
2. Queen's
4. Toronto
5. Alberta</p>

<p>Comprehensive
1. Victoria
2. Simon Fraser
3. Waterloo
4. Guelph
5. Memorial
5. New Brunswick</p>

<p>Primarly Undergraduate
1. Acadia
1. Mount Allison
3. St. Francis Xavier
4. UNBC
4. Trent</p>

<p>From the 2006 issue of Maclean's Guide to Canadian Universites:</p>

<p>National Reputational Ranking</p>

<p>Best Overall
1. Waterloo
2. Toronto
3. McGill
4. UBC
5. Alberta</p>

<p>Highest Quality
1. McGill
2. Queen's
3. Toronto
4. Watleroo
5. UBC</p>

<p>Most Innovative
1. Waterloo
2. McMaster
3. Alberta
4. McGill
5. UBC</p>

<p>Leaders of Tomorrow
1. Toronto
2. Waterloo
3. UBC
4. Alberta
5. McGill</p>

<p>each Canadian school is divided into either "Medical Doctoral"(which offers Bachelors, Masters and PhD), "Comprehensive" (Bachelors and Masters) and Primary Undergrad (only Bachelors)</p>

<p>Prestige and reputation are quite amorphous in nature. I do not think McGill is overrated. If at all it's underrated. What McGill offers is quite unparalleled expecially given how much it costs for both in state and out of state students.Who is to say that it doesn't merit the recognition it gets? McGill certainly has its flaws but...</p>

<p>My previous posts were meant to help those deciding to come here (such as Banana Tree) and not as a rebuttal to the original overrated comment. Debating such topics is pointless.</p>

<p>binghamton: take a philosophy class. Maybe it'll teach you how to craft an arguement...A more quick fix, however, is just seeing a doctor to get your head pulled out of your ^%$. </p>

<p>You spout here and there about how places like duke, dartmouth, brown, etc. are all, unquestionably better, and now I explicitly ask you: why?</p>

<p>Because they have more money to squander? Because, somehow (you can't just explain), their educations are better?</p>

<p>Come to McGill, takes some classes, get challenged, and you'll see how at McGill (aside from management) it's hard to find a program that won't make you work for the B. Whereas at the ivy league, you can easily coast. To quote the thread title: don't even argue with me about this. If you think everyone in Ivy schools is working full steam all the time in serious programs, getting educations that are actually worth 50k+ (whatever that even means), you should get out more. Take your nose out of the USNW&R rankings, and visit a school or too.</p>