Before I begin, I would like to state that I know expressing my concern is likely futile but I know that Dean J spends time on this board so hopefully someone close to admissions will at least contemplate this issue.
I recently was accepted to both UVa and NYU Stern. I love UVa. It’s not too far from home, tuition is much lower, the social scene is exactly what I’m looking for, and I love the campus. From what I’ve researched through websites like Wall Street Oasis, the job placement opportunities are extremely comparable at both McIntire and Stern. So obviously the better choice for me personally would be for to attend UVa this fall. However, I will very likely be attending Stern, and here’s why. I do not want to have constant fear for my first two years about whether I will get into McIntire or be forced to either transfer or study economics, something completely different from finance.
I understand UVa’s thought process on having students spend their first two years in general studies. The idea is to have a strong liberal arts foundation before beginning a specialization. Almost all four year undergraduate business programs do something similar. This makes a lot of sense, but it has unintended consequences. Students who truly want to get into McIntire are going to methodically plan their schedules. These kids are not going to take a chance on a class they think might be interesting to broaden their horizons in fear that it will endanger their admissions. College is a time to explore and find new interests, and McIntire admissions completely discourages this. I do not think I am alone in this predicament and I believe UVa is losing many other students who truly know they want to study business and would like to attend UVa, but feel safer entering a four year program.
I may not be aware of all of the details, but form the outside it seems like there are very simple ways for UVa to fix this. Admissions to McIntire could be made easier. UVa could guarantee admissions to top freshman applicants. I’m very likely oversimplifying the situation but something truly should be done for future applicants.
I apologize for how poorly written this is, but any feedback is welcome.
It seems like UVa is your first choice. Why not go for it? Sure, there is no guarantee that you’ll get into McIntire, but if you attend your second choice (Stern), won’t you always be looking over your shoulder at Charlottesville? Business is all about measuring risk vs. reward. I think you’re mistaken about how McIntire admissions views courses you take in your first two years. Yes, you must fulfill the prerequisites, but they encourage you to take courses that interest you. My son recently graduated from McIntire and he took Latin, History of Rock Music, Pop Culture, and Environmental Science (he was Echols so he wasn’t required to take any of these…he took them because they were interesting to him). Apply yourself in all of your classes, get involved in some extracurricular activities, and get to know the folks in the McIntire program. Best of luck wherever you choose to attend.
@robertr You’re definitely right about business being about risk and reward. I’ll still be visiting both schools before I make a final decision, but the risk of not getting into McIntire is simply not worth it. Your son seems to have been a very bright student, being an Echols Scholar, and I guess I’m just not confident enough in my ability to secure a spot in McIntire. But I greatly appreciate the feedback!
@McIntireguy123 I thought about that, but I know that transfers outside of UVa into McIntire are very hard. If I really can’t stand the city lifestyle after the first year I could always transfer too.
We are going through the same thought process about the drawback of waiting 2 years to apply to McIntire. It is definitely a negative about potentially going to UVA.
The decision about this kind of thing happens WAY above my pay grade and the people at that level will never see this thread. In 10 years, I have never been in the same room as them.
When you’re in high school, I know it seems like admission officers are extremely powerful, but once you are in college, you’ll realize that we are gatekeepers, not executive-level administrators. Most you won’t even think about talking to me ever again once you are here…which is my way of saying that convincing me of your position shouldn’t be in your mind. Aim higher!
@"Dean J" That response very much put a smile on my face. Regardless of the power of your position it was nice thought in my mind to think anyone related to UVa in any shape or form might at least understand my position. But like I said, I understand my post was futile; it was simply a good way to get a frustration off my chest.
I will, however, take you up on aiming higher! I’ll shoot someone in charge an email and they can promptly ignore it! It’s too late for me but hopefully the “higher ups” will realize this detriment in future application cycles. Thanks again for the response!
There could be a hybrid system, in which the very top incoming first years are guaranteed a spot in McIntire, and everyone else has to compete for the remaining spots. Some public universities do that with some programs - some are guaranteed admission, and others have to compete.
There also could an option in which the Economics department offers more practical business-oriented classes to help meet the demand.
@Charliesch I go to a school where they accept the most talented students directly into the business school and I can tell you that many of them start to slack off and they do not do as well in their classes compared to the people who are competing. I am not saying that accepting the top students is a bad thing, but I do think that it will effect the ranking of the school. It could also cause a decrease in interest for McIntire. If people see that there are less seats available they may go elsewhere.
@McIntireguy123 unfortunately the last point that you made is exactly what’s happening when perspective students see the acceptance rate dropping consistently every year and the average GPA of accepted students rising every year.
Perhaps McIntire is seeking students who are hungry enough to accept the risk of the admissions process and who then rise to the challenge by exhibiting top performance during their first two years. So far, it seems to be working for them, which is why it is not likely to change.
My daughter is in a similar situation. Her top 3 schools ended up being UVA , Michigan (Ross pre-admit) and USC business school. She was 90% going to UVA until she was accepted to Ross. Being from NY and having such large alumni base she felt she needed to visit UM . I took her Thursday and Friday and although Ross is extremely impressive my daughter did not like a lot of things about Michigan. I wont get into that. Anyway she is sticking with UVA and she could not be happier about it. I have tried to stay neutral and let her make her own decision as she is an extremely mature and logical young woman.
Bottom line if she has the ability to get into Ross Pre-admit , if she does her work I strongly believe she will get into Mcintire and if she does not then I guess her grades did not match her potential.
She Is on her way for Tomorrows days on the Lawn and she is on cloud 9. fyi UVA was not even on our radar when started this process and I didn’t even know she applied. Its amazing if you have an open mind and not follow the masses amazing things can happen. To further explain I believe she has atleast 9 kids from our high school going to Michigan, 10 to University of Marlyand , Many to Indiana university,
UVA is not an “in school” in our area --after visiting I have no idea why. I have visited a lot of schools and UVA blew us all away and didnt visit a school was close imo. (although USC is very impressive) Taking into account academics, campus layout and beauty , size and overall feeling we received when visiting. We are know a UVA Family
Welcome, Vandy. UVa families often are muti-generational - my Dad was a professor who attended a summer research program at UVa, he then encouraged me to attend UVa, and I encouraged my son to attend.
@vandyloss It’s the combination of all of these things that make this decision such a difficult one to make. Many kids each year from my school attend UVa and all of them really enjoy their time. I have visited and noticed the same things that you and your daughter have, which is why it’s so unfortunate I won’t be attending. I have my heart set on finance and I know how difficult it is to land investment banking or consulting gigs when you major in economics at school that has an undergraduate business program, which is what would happen if I did not get into McIntire. Again it’s just a risk/reward thing and it’s a risk I’m not willing to take. However, I do wish your daughter the best of luck!
A large number of majors at UVA follow this pattern: education, honors programs, etc. I knew I wanted to be a teacher, and while the education school is much less competitive for admissions, I knew I just had to work my hardest so I would get in. If I didn’t get in, I would deal with the decision of transferring or doing a post graduate program or staying. So I really do think the change would be bigger than just commerce. Another thing is that UVA is totally different than high school: how exactly will you measure up against peers with similar grades in high school? The grade distribution is totally redone (everyone came in getting all As, obviously not everyone gets all As at UVA). Part of what admissions wants to see is how you will compare with the other top students at UVA. I don’t know if there would be a way to preadmit that.
Any system of guaranteed admission to McIntire for top HS students would have some conditions on it - such as a requirement to maintain a 3.5 GPA. However, that would still reduce the uncertainty.
Regardless of who gets to use the McIntire credentials, there are obviously many more UVa students who want to take more business courses, and cannot do it. There should be some way to meet the demand. This could be done by offering additional practical courses, minors and/or certifications in the Economics Department.
Last time I checked 3 years ago, Villanova University had a similar situation in which their business school could not meet all of the demand. They then offered an intensive summer program that allowed a student to earn a minor in business. It was done because the business school had spare capacity in faculty and facilities during the summer.
@vandyloss welcome to the UVA family! Hope she enjoys DOTL. That is what completely sold my son. He is a first year and is planning on applying to McIntyre. He too turned down a Ross pre-admit as well as admission to a couple of higher ranked privates because he really loved UVA so much. And it initially wasn’t at the top of his list. He has no regrets about his decision and is thriving. Assuming your daughter ends up at UVA make sure that she gets involved early in extracurriculars. The Business related ones can be really competitive so our advice is that she explore several and apply to several. My son applied to several and did get into one.