<p>How so? The main argument I see is the fact that these illegal immigrants haven’t paid for the subsidized tuition and thus don’t deserve the in state tuition. </p>
<p>Actually nevermind, the PARENTS haven’t paid for the subsidized tuition, the students just end up f*****.</p>
<p>Interficio: I Quote “outweigh the qualities of the average, low-achieving caucasian citizen.” That kind of statement sums up your sense entitlement. This isn’t about Caucasian’s its about citizenship. Period. Start the process to become a citizen or at least a legal resident, and become one and than you can participate in what the citizen’s of this country provide for their fellow citizen’s. And BTW, if you are on this forum you might have surmised by now that the vast majority of HS kids feel they too are working their *** off until they are in tears. A lot of tears every March…It all comes down to becoming a citizen legally. Period. Otherwise you are an international, and very welcome to pay full tuition like all other internationals.</p>
<p>Illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. They may seem to take advantage of Federal fundings, such as Social Security and Medicaid, yet they contribute more than $9 billion every year. As a matter of fact, the US is made up immigrants, not by pilgrims; even Native Americans had immigrated from Bering Sea.</p>
<p>@parent56, I agree with you. The illegal immigrant situation just shines a light on how unfair the oos tuition scenario can be. Some states have reasonable oos rates, other ones do not and it doesn’t seem to reflect their level of taxation of their own residents at all. And then for someone to have arrived just a few years earlier, and not to have arrived legally, and to have taken advantage of a free K-12 school system and ESOL classes, and then to automatically progress to in-state tuition seems very unfair to taxpaying residents of other states. </p>
<p>The K-12 years are where most of the money is spent though. How many illegal immigrants could pay OOS rates anyway? </p>
<p>@MDmom - my county does have in-county and (slightly higher) in-state rates, and then out of state rates. The funny thing is, they rely more and more on “fees” which everyone pays regardless of their residence or age (seniors in county are free on tuition). The fees can be 1/3 or more of the price of a class.</p>
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<p>The Immigrants in question are illegal.
Natives, original pilgrims, 13 colonies all immigrated before the US was formed.</p>
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<p>Interficio and other undocumented students didn’t choose to move to the US; their parents came here, and they had to follow. If someone comes here as a minor, why should they have to take responsibility for the actions of their parents? </p>
<p>Further, what does our government gain by adding obstacles to obtaining a college degree for them? It’s to our society’s advantage to see all qualified students in higher education, regardless of national origin. Undereducating noncitizen residents will only perpetuate intergenerational poverty in Latino families.</p>
<p>“That kind of statement sums up your sense entitlement.”
I admit I regret posting that phrase and I really am not an entitled person, I just couldn’t help but imagine all the citizens I know who absolutely make no effort in life whatsoever. I realize they should not typify any race or legal group. I apologize.</p>
<p>“Start the process to become a citizen or at least a legal resident, and become one and than you can participate in what the citizen’s of this country provide for their fellow citizen’s.”
It’s not that easy. You can’t just “apply” magically. You have to have sponsorship and the money to do it. My family does not have the means to pay for the process and I’m not sure we will in the near future. Not to mention the long waiting periods which may or may not successfully result in residency. If the process were easier or at least less convoluted, I would not be here arguing on an online forum for rights, I would have dragged my ass to naturalization services a decade ago (on my tricycle, nonetheless)</p>
<p>“Otherwise you are an international, and very welcome to pay full tuition like all other internationals.”
As straightforward and objective as this sentence attempts to be, reading it still hurt. “like all the other internationals” feels like being shoved into a group in which I do not belong. This analogy may be too extreme and elicit disapproval, but a few decades ago, would not the logic of your argument have been duplicated thusly? “You’re black and therefore a second class citizen. You can purchase our products and ride our transportation and attend our schools, but you can’t receive any of these assets as equally as us first-class citizens.” I realize my quote is faulty as well, but I can’t help but feel discriminated, as objective as your argument attempted to be. I may legally be considered as international, but I see myself as a citizen. I have lived 4/5 of my life here. I’ve been raised by the culture and societal norms of this country, by the belief in finding opportunities that I can’t find in my “home” country. It’s not a home to me. Place of birth should not determine the extent of opportunities allotted to an individual who is willing to work and help his fellow human beings. I’m determined not to let a fatalistic sense of residency in a geographic spot determine the amount of success I can achieve, but it’s tough. I know in my heart that I am AMERICAN. So please, even if you objectively feel that it is fitting that I not have the opportunities that this country offers to those who were lucky enough to have been born in this great nation, do not label me, because the connotations of your labels only serve to further entrench me into the corner from which I cannot escape, the impasse where I must face my fears that I neither belong in my home country where I would be a stranger, nor in the country which I love and in which I was raised. Even if I find it arduous to establish my own identity, I ask that you restrict yourself from calling me “international” or referring those in a situation similar or identical to mine as “the illegals.” Thank you.</p>
<p>Legal immigration is too difficult, and illegal immigration is too easy. But no one seems to want to fix the problem by simplifying and increasing legal immigration, while closing some of the loopholes (particularly in work eligibility verification) that make it easy to immigrate illegally.</p>
<p>“Interficio and other undocumented students didn’t choose to move to the US; their parents came here, and they had to follow. If someone comes here as a minor, why should they have to take responsibility for the actions of their parents?”</p>
<p>Does that mean that you think that my D shouldn’t have to take responsibility for the fact that DH and I decided to live in Ohio when she wants to go to school in a different state? Or should she get to pay in-state tuition because it wasn’t her fault?</p>
<p>It’s not that I’m not compassionate but facts are facts… illegal aliens are here ILLEGALLY and all of the sugar-coating in the world doesn’t change that. I can guarantee that Mexico (or any other country) would not treat me or my children half as well if I snuck over the border and tried to build a life there.</p>
<p>What objective evidence allows you to make that guarantee? </p>
<p>Nevertheless, I realize you cannot sugarcoat things and, as “rightful” citizens, you shouldn’t just give in to my pathos. HOWEVER, I agree with the posters who have said that there should be a compromise. The DREAM act, for example, would allow hardworking students who would contribute to society to be able to access residency-status and higher education more affordably and reasonably. Likewise, some similar concept should be developed with work visas, which would be hard to regulate, but nevertheless would aid the millions who have nowhere else to turn except to starvation in their home countries. Reasonably, these privileges would be taken away if an individual endangered the country, committed a felony, etc. Although this may be too ideal, optimistic, and naive, wouldn’t this plan, if properly regulated, allow qualified students more rights and workers with the ability to fulfill the labor roles which no one else in american society would “degrade” themselves by doing, thereby aiding business and the economy?</p>
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<p>Coming from the other end of the spectrum, I agree that this would be awesome if children were not held hostage to the circumstances of their parents in the college application process. As it is, kids whose parents make too much money to qualify for FA have very few choices if their parents don’t want to pay.</p>
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<p>A very neat capsulization of the problem, ucbalumnus.</p>
<p>Interficio - I’ve followed this question for many years since I grew up along the border so have knowledge of what I speak. And there’s no need to use quotation marks when you speak of me as a rightful citizens for that is what I am. </p>
<p>I am personally tired of the argument that illegal aliens do jobs that Americans won’t. Even if that were true at one time, there are too many Americans looking for work for this argument to hold water.</p>
<p>But aren’t a lot of the jobs that were lost those which qualified, degree-holding applicants typically held, or am I mistaken?</p>
<p>All kinds of jobs have been lost in the last few years, Interficio, and many of those who were affected would be glad for any job.</p>
<p>This is disparaging to the state. It just goes to show how idiotic American politics are getting.</p>
<p>Interficio,
Where are you from? Would you face starvation (using your words) if you were to return? What do your parents tell you about your predicament? Do you think you should be expected to make some sacrifices as a result of living here illegally? If not, why not?</p>
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<p>You may want to direct them to [Take</a> Our Jobs](<a href=“http://www.ufw.org/toj_play/TOJNEW_12_JAL.html]Take”>http://www.ufw.org/toj_play/TOJNEW_12_JAL.html), recruiting US citizens and legal residents to farm worker jobs.</p>
<p>Here is an [article</a> on the farm worker situation](<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39380593/ns/business-your_retirement/]article”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39380593/ns/business-your_retirement/) from about three months after the UFW’s Take Our Jobs campaign started.</p>
<p>Didn’t we have this debate before, or was it on that spinoff forum?</p>
<p>Its easy to not pay taxes, General Electric doesn’t pay taxes and in fact got a bailout from TARP. </p>
<p>All those Mexican/Hispanic/Thai/Chinese buffets, food establishments you like so well, Do you really think they are owned and ran by legals?</p>
<p>How many of you bought or refinanced your homes from the 90’s on, ever remembered a very necessary and mandatory question, “Are you a US citizen or permitted alien? (to that effect) .”</p>
<p>Are there so many mean people that want to punish children who were not the ones to make the choice of whether or not to come to this country. My daughter will lose her boyfriend and a good friend to a country that punishes a young man who had no say in his future but who ended up here because he cannot afford to go to school here because he will not get financial aid. So he is going back to Mexico and my daughter is heartbroken. All he wants to do is go to college so he can get a job and pay taxes…</p>