My son is on track to possibly graduate early with a BS in ME. I’m doing a little tire kicking of the options and realized that my basic knowledge of what goes on after engineering undergrad is pretty limited. Certainly he could graduate early and just join the work force. Alternatively, he could slow down, but as it is he’s not busting it just to go fast. He entered with a good combination of AP and dual enrollment credit. The third option is Masters and that’s where we are both a bit clueless. Never say never, but I don’t believe he wants a PhD. He wants to be a practicing engineer. He’s currently following the mechatronics concentration path, but isn’t 100% certain yet.
The easiest route is to declare for the 4+1 program and call it good. IF he were to look at switching schools for his masters and he’s looking to do a course based and not a thesis based masters with the intention of stopping there and not pursuing a doctorate, what’s the best way to vet programs?
He’s pretty certain he’ll want to stay in the west (Rockies to west coast). We have several top ranked programs right in the neighborhood (Stanford, UCB, Caltech).
If he were wanting a PhD I think the program search would be easy, look for the folks doing the best research in your area of interest and hope to get it. Since a course based masters isn’t as focussed, where does one start and what does one look for?
Thanks @boneh3ad. I don’t think PhD is definately off the table, but certainly at this stage of his thinking, he doesn’t have the baseline to know what he likes yet and I’m not sure he’d want to dedicate the time.
As for vetting UG, I take a different approach than many. I’m a big proponent of smaller classes and intructors who teach because they want to not because they have to. Some of the big names got rejected as a result, in fact all three mentioned above, for those reasons.
Now when it comes to grad school, where all the classes are upper level, I’m not certain those distinctions are important. Most classes by then are small anywhere and due to the advanced nature of the classes, unlikely to be taught by TAs.
So, what else would one look for other than name recognition?
He still wants research in his area of interest. Just because he won’t be doing a research degree doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect him. Professors only teach courses in their own wheelhouse at the graduate level, so more research in that area means more and better course offerings. Also, connections to industry are obviously important.
Non-thesis masters programs are often designed for employed people. Why are you disinterested in a thesis option ?
I think the main goal of a masters is to learn more of the basic principles underlying the typical equations or methods used to solve problems. You can then develop new designs and concepts and any necessary new analysis tools. Or, in some companies, it’s a sign of higher ambition, but some companies prefer a MBA or systems engineering degree.
You can go out and earn money earlier (how early ? sure it is going to happen ? AP classes and the like do not make junior year classes easier or senior projects go faster or easier).
Mechatronics is sort of a multi-disciplinary field. So maybe you would just build more coursework to support what is likely a survey of all the underlying fields from ME to EE to CS.
Stanford, UCB, Caltech may not be that interested in someone who is not interested in research or original work aka thesis. They may also not be particularly involved in mechatronics.
I would start by talking to professors in the department about their 4+1 program. Sounds like your son is top student, so they should be interested in keeping him, and they also know what that particular major is and how it relates to their graduate studies.
Then, if mechatronics is his thing, look at other schools that have masters programs or PhD programs. Talk to employers about whether they feel the BS he will get is sufficient or if many folks get hired in with MS or if their employees take night classes.
I would vett programs by whether they interest him and provide some interesting research and coursework for him. Engineering is not particular big on prestigious schools, but sure would impress if he has really been involved in good work in that last year and can explain it to his employers.
Thesis is more like work than coursework is, bigger task, lots of self-motivation and self-direction.
@PickOne1, We hashed out the thesis vs non in another thread. It’s not set in stone certainly, but non seemed like a better fit.
I’m not certain he’ll be able to graduate early, but he’s certainly on track. At the end of his first year he’s more than 50% finished with his degree progress. He’s not just ahead on hours though, he’s ahead on sequenced progress too having finished all physics and math including dif eg and linear. He’s also taken a few upper level courses, statics and materials. So, he’s as set up as he can be to finish early.
Mechatronics is just what sounded coolest to him when he started. It still does, but he’s yet to take any of the specialization courses, so who knows.
Maybe it’s simply too early to know what to look for yet, just don’t know what we don’t know.
Thesis masters in engineering can encompass a project with a written description, not just what we typically think of as research. MS or ME take about the same time commitment regardless.
Now, to confuse matters even worse, I run into UCB’s Masters of Engineering. It seems to be half engineering and half business. But, unlike the 90 hour (they are on quarters) combined MS/MBA at Cal Poly, you get neither an MS or an MBA, but rather a MEng.
We have a number of students who are on track to finish early and I was one myself back in the day (don’t ask me how long ago…). These days, I recommend that the student take the co-terminal masters route instead of a second Bachelor’s degree and I would similarly recommend the co-terminal degree instead of graduating early or going to another school for a Masters. There are several reasons for this
The co-terminal degree can usually be finished more quickly than graduating, then starting a masters at a different university.
It may be possible to do research or a project which dovetails nicely with the student's undergraduate research. This mans that the time spent in research can be longer than in a traditional masters degree.
Whether or not the student wants to go for a Ph.D. or into the workforce, this kind of Masters degree can be useful because of the exposure to advanced courses which add to employability (and salary) and help the student decide if going for a Ph.D. is the right thing to do.
The biggest salary boost is from Bachelor's to Masters. If you can do it in 5 years total then it is really a great value proposition.
The question of whether a thesis or non-thesis Masters is best can also be determined more effectively with a co-terminal degree since itis likely that a final decision can be discussed with faculty advisors during the degree instead of having to decide at the time of applying for the degree at another university.
Getting the co-terminal or 4+1 Masters degree will not hinder any Ph.D. options for the future, either immediately or after working for a while. In fact, the coursework will likely transfer in part or completely, making the time to Ph.D. shorter (at least the coursework part).
Finally, Cal Poly is a good school and a Masters from there will be fine for employment and for a Ph.D.
All that being said, sometimes it is wise to work for a while before starting a graduate program. It gives you time to figure out exactly what kind of degree is right for you. However, with a 4+1 completed early there is really no down side to it. Suppose that your son finishes the 4+1 and gets a good job as an engineer. The advanced degree may not be specificaly in the area of his work but he has learned how to develop the skills and knowledge to meet the job requirements and won’t need to take more engineering classes for that. If he decides that a business degree willfurther his career, then he can get an MBA and have that credential as well. Ifhe thinks that a research career is what he really wants, then the Ph.D. route is open too.
I have no suggestion except to mention that your son blew away the myth that one can graduate in 4 years at a state school, let alone do 4+1 program. I say go for it.
The 4 year engineering graduation rate is notoriously low at Poly, partly because of the historic difficulty in getting classes and partly due to the fact that the curriculum is 20 hours longer than the typical CP degree. They’ve made strides to mitigate the former, but he still could fall victim. The real secret is not to dodge class times or professors. This is really about having a plan if he’s able to stay on track timing wise. Thanks everyone for your input!
I’ll throw in another option. It might not be feasible due to course sequencing… but a 6 month co-op (summer + 1 semester before or after) would allow some longer, more meaningful job experience than summer internship.
Getting your masters at night while working is very financially compelling, employer pays, you get paid full salary … but it is a grueling way to spend your 20s. Throw in a house and kids … it gets really tough.
So with a 4+1 masters there will be no pressure to take classes outside of work (expected in some fields, positions, employers, career tracks) … and you may even be able to enjoy life … or work those crazy 80 hour days that often lead to the carpeted offices.
Coops are usually flexible … or a summer job could morph into staying another semester.
Unless your son truly knows his desired area to get a Masters, I think it is best to work a bit then go back later.
I have a Masters (not in Engineering) and if I had gotten my Masters right after graduating it would not have been in the same area I currently hold mine in. Life experience is really important before committing money to the next schooling venture.
