<p>My son has been accepted to the AFA, and USNA. He has decided he may want to be a doctor. Will the opportunity present itself if he goes to USNA? What is the path to Med School from the USNA? I know it is not available from the CGA. I am thinking he may need to look at other schools.</p>
<p>I’m sure others will provide more specific details and edifications but briefly …</p>
<p>A number (usually modest) of Midshipmen are sent directly to med school following graduation and commission. Generally, they are all chem majors, a very challenging, demanding major @ USNA, and the subject area considered by many to be the plebe killer.</p>
<p>I have heard from some there is a quota or max # of 15 or so, but I have also heard from a highly reliable source that IF a student is admitted to med school, then he/she is given a slot,i.e. there is no quota. Admission is highly competitive. Most, perhaps all?, attend the government med school there in MD.</p>
<p>Short answer: It’s possible and a number (small, seemingly fewer than 15 or 20 annually)are admitted to med school directly from USNA.</p>
<p>Also …it is possible, though not a common or frequent circumstance, to be admitted out of the fleet. I just spoke with one 2nd year med student who graduated in 2002 from USNA as a surface nuke officer. As he noted, “I’ll be in the Navy forever. And that’s ok.”</p>
<p>There is indeed the quota which WP has mentioned and USNA officially discourages medical school. All USNA grads who are physically qualified with the exception of these medical students and one or two other rare exceptions are required to go unrestricted line (read warfare specialities). If you indicate medical school during your BGO interview, you will be discouraged and your grade will probably be marked down. With that said, USNA just raised the quota another 10 or so billets last year. Go figure.</p>
<p>Chem majors who want to go to med school and have the grades to pursue same and are willing to sign on for the extended commitment are a very very small group. Many years they don’t reach the lesser old quota. I don’t know how, or even if, they expect increased participation with this new higher quota.</p>
<p>I have always suggested that those interested in the SAs first and then becoming a MD second, look very closely at West Point. Just by the nature of their business, the Army integrates the medical branches much more with the operations in the field than do the other services (maybe AF and Navy flight surgeons excluded) and a SA education would be more helpful in the development of a MD. And WP has more openings to med school hence a better opportunity to pursue it. And better courses available to prepare for the MCATs. Due to the nature of the size of the hospitals, among other things, and resulting opportunities, Navy would be second and since AF medicine involves many smaller clinics, unless one wishes to practice family medicine, the AF is probably third. Just my opinion from talking to lot of military docs from all branches.</p>
<p>Lippy, congrats to your son. This is a big decision for him! I was accepted to the 3 major academies for class of 2012, chose USAFA but left a few weeks into the school year (medical reasons). Anyway, I too am planning on medical school, and for a few reasons, decided it was in my best interest not to go back. Personally, I really can’t see myself doing anything other than medicine so I really had to think hard about what the best route would be. I don’t see the quota as a real issue; it is more if you can get yourself to be a competitive medical school applicant. Anyway, it is tough to get a strong GPA at any of the academies, not because the course rigor is stronger than other schools, but because you are pressured with so much else. This, coupled with the fact that medical schools are notorious for not caring where you did your undergrad coursework, may make for a tough time. Sure, you probably make for a unique applicant coming from a SA, but it won’t compensate for a mediocre GPA. I still keep in contact with some friends at USAFA, some of who are pre-med, that have butchered their GPA to a point of no hope. Anyway, it is military medicine that I want, so I’m looking into the Health Professions Scholarship Program. You could always enter military later on as well, but if you are bent on going to a SA, then go for it, it can be done through hard work. Also, I wouldn’t look at the military as a nice and easy way to pay for undergrad and/or medical school as it is not worth it. Lots of people think it is and I have heard of medical officer recruiters distorting things and doctors being very unhappy with that path. A big problem I have heard of is the branches stuffing doctors into primary care and flight surgeon (not a surgeon) while they were convinced they would receive a specialty and the lack of training in a military residency. Also, even with all the loans you would repay, it financially does not put you ahead by any means. For me, this isn’t a huge problem since I want to military and primary care. Anyway, please don’t just accept what anyone says and think about these things. You should check out the military medicine forum at The Student Doctor Network and try to get insight from people who have been through the process.</p>
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Maybe one should not believe everything they hear, even from ‘highly reliable’ sources:</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/11/AR2009121104016.html]washingtonpost.com[/url”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/11/AR2009121104016.html]washingtonpost.com[/url</a>]</p>
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<p>A great article from several perspectives. However, not making the cut caused him to cancel his med school search.</p>
<p>I don’t know, maybe it is because this mid has a 3.4 GPA and had not even taken the MCAT yet, that they decided not to give him a slot? I may be wrong, but I don’t know of any medical school you can apply to with no MCAT score. Since he is WAY behind in applying and his GPA isn’t stellar, it doesn’t appear to be a huge surprise that they didn’t award him a slot.</p>
<p>
What gives you the impression that he has not taken the MCAT?</p>
<p>And in some schools a 3.4 GPA for a Chem major is not too shabby. I realize that this is for USNA but I think some med schools additionally look at science-only GPAs, which we do not know from the article.</p>
<p>My entire point was that he did not make the cut at USNA and, therefore, was not given an opportunity to apply for medical school.</p>
<p>“Hatcher could have walked away from all that this year. He knew that he was going to be strictly a scout team player this fall, and he was planning on taking the MCATs and pursuing a medical corps service assignment, which is highly selective – only 10 seniors are chosen – and would have allowed him to enter medical school next fall.”</p>
<p>Sorry, I read it out of context a bit. If he were to take it for first time in the fall, it puts him pretty back by applying late. Anyway, your right, we don’t know everything and whatever the circumstances are - if he had a 2.8 or 4.0 GPA, it appears that he was not fully given an opportunity to apply.</p>
<p>Thank you for the feedback.</p>
<p>Trying to get into medical school out of a service academy is a competition with nobody but yourself. At the Naval Academy, they are not going to allow some arbitrary quota stop a midshipman with good grades, a good record, who has been actively pursuing the Medical Corps, and who has been accepted into medical school from going into the Medical Corps. It’s not going to happen!</p>
<p>You have to hit the ground running as soon as you get to the Naval Academy. Your quest for the Medical Corps can be over almost as soon as it gets started. If you finish your first semester Plebe year with a 2.6 and “C” in Chemistry … it’s virtually over!</p>
<p>Of all those who enter the academy with the intent of going Medical Corps, those numbers are leaned out in a very Darwinian way.</p>
<ol>
<li>Some discover they do not have the grades.</li>
<li>Some get into conduct/honor problems.</li>
<li>Some are not aggressive enough in doing the EXTRA things it takes to get accepted into medical school.</li>
<li>Some do not score high enough on their MCAT’s.</li>
<li>Some realize they have no aptitude for the technical courses necessary for entrance into medical school.</li>
<li>Some realize that they are essentially committing to a career in the Navy. They do not want that kind of commitment.</li>
<li>Some simply change their mind and decide they want to be a pilot or a Marine, instead.</li>
<li>Some, for one reason or another, just do not get accepted into medical school.</li>
</ol>
<p>After the above carnage, few are left standing. And THOSE are the ones who graduate into the Medical Corps.</p>
<p>
Eight good reasons not to go to the Naval Academy if one is completely focused on pursuing medicine.
The Academy offers so much more in the development of an Officer other than academics. To perhaps forego some of this in an effort to maintain the grades necessary for medical school is missing much of the entire purpose of the Naval Academy.
Bottom line, there is a quota and there is a board. One can not anticipate what each board will do when and if faced with more qualified applicants than available quotas.</p>
<p>I will put my 2 cents in for what it is worth.</p>
<p>Going to med school from the USNA is possible, but the odds are not in your favor, for ALL the reasons stated above.
If med school is the goal, the best advice I can offer is to have your son attend a civilian college, for the following reasons [added to the ones already listed]:
pre-med students need more then chemistry; they need bio, micro, organic chem, anatomy and physiology [I and II], sociology, psychology, etc- all course work NOT offered at USNA
pre-med students do not need “cores” in engineering, which IS required at USNA for ALL graduates.</p>
<p>Apply for NRTOC, go to a civilian school to study pre-med, and go from there.</p>
<p>I disagree that the Naval Academy does not have the necessary curriculum (course selection) to pursue the Medical Corps. That used to be true but the Bio Science courses have been vastly expanded over the past 2 years. One comparison of the 2008 catalog to the 2009 catalog will clearly show that - where all the courses are described. They have greatly expanded the number of slots for Medical Corps and all those available slots are seldom, if ever, filled. </p>
<p>I have a classmate ('79) who was running the Electrical Engineering Department at the Naval Academy and, not too long ago, two mids from his department got into medical school. Electrical Engineering majors! I will say this - it helps if you validate a lot of classes. Also, many of those pursuing the Medical Corps voluntarily attend summer school to get certain “distracting” and time consuming courses out of the way - like Navigation. It’s a lot of work, that’s for sure. You have to hit the ground running and you have to be relentless. It cannot be a casual quest.</p>
<p>Plus, the uniqueness of the Naval Academy experience automatically puts the candidate above many other applicants in the intangible department because it already indicates that the candidate can 1) manage time, 2) has excellent study skills, 3) and is dedicated to serving mankind through medicine. Point #3 is very important because that seems to be something medical schools look for. They are concerned that you just want to be a rich doctor. Well, you’re not going to get rich as a military doctor - that’s for sure. And your life is not going to be as cushy as that of your civilian counterpart. Dedication is assumed to exist with a Naval Academy graduate.</p>
<p>The mere fact that the Naval Academy allows midshipmen to pursue a medical career is testament enough to the value of the pursuit.</p>
<p>Would you be saying the same thing about a desire to be a SEAL - because the odds of achieving that goal are just about as thin for a host of different reasons?</p>
<p>If you want to go to Med School and excel in the areas that you need to at the Academy, then you will most likely be given the opportunity to do so. It is a common fallacy that you need to major in Chemistry in order to go to Med School (Math is a very viable option). You only need a few courses (mainly in Chemstry) in addition to the classes any midshipman would take to be qualified, and if you validate a few courses coming into the Academy you probably would not even need to overload your schedule at any point to take those courses.</p>
<p>It seems like the Academy is starting to shy away from the “everyone goes unrestricted line” mentality. SWO IP and SWO IW are becoming viable service selections and the Academy is willing to grant waivers for color blindness (don’t quote me on this, but I remember reading somewhere that they are willing to send more people to med school).</p>
<p>On another note, I’ve never met anyone (or heard of anyone) who had the desire and was qualified to go to Med School out of the Academy who was denied.</p>
<p>Memphis has it right. Most of the courses that Navy2010 mentioned are actually offered at the Academy (with the exception of Psychology, and I may be wrong about that one). You can certainly create for yourself a competitive pre-med program.</p>
<p>I don’t think the question is whether or not the Academy can prepare a midshipman adequately for medical school but whether or not a candidate should attend USNA if their goal is to be a physician. I am in agreement with navy2010 that there are better avenues to achieve this goal than attending the Naval Academy. Sure the selection rate for SEALs and medical school is similar but the four year path to get there is entirely different. Everything a SEAL candidate does to achieve his ultimate goal will make him a better officer. Many of the things a medical school candidate does to achieve his ultimate goal will be at the expense of making him a better officer.</p>
<p>While no doubt that the Academy experience will personally benefit a medical student, benefit to the Navy is minimal and taxpayer dollars can be better spent by utilizing the Naval Academy for that which it was intended, to train line officers. The same minimal benefit would apply, probably more so, to JAG, CEC, Supply Corps, Chaplains, etc. Are we going to open it up to all of these also?</p>
<p>USNA presents probably one of the greatest opportunities in college today to participate in intercollegiate sports. Time management skills,and teamwork bode one well as an officer. Will a medical school candidate with a mandatory GPA requirement take advantage of these opportunities?</p>
<p>“Not for self, but country” is the motto of the Naval Academy. Will a medical school candidate, knowing that he has to have an ‘A’ on the next day’s Chemistry quiz be as likely to help his roommate struggling with Calculus in order to remain sat?</p>
<p>Will a medical school candidate in pursuit of his mandatory GPA sequestered away in his tiny cubicle be as likely to participate in company professional leadership and training roles? Do plebes not recognize immediately those upper class who are too busy, who have no time for them?</p>
<p>One attempting to be a great officer will embrace all of the above. A few might perhaps pursue medical school and take advantage of all that USNA offers, but not all. And our officer corps will suffer.</p>
<p>
While I rarely agree with the above poster, I must agree with this statement.</p>
<p>So much wrong with Mombee’s post, so many generalizations.</p>
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<p>I think your suggestion that, somehow, a midshipman striving to get into the Medical Corps is a selfish and unpatriotic person is just wrong on so many levels.</p>
<p>The FACT of the matter is that the Medical Corps is an option available to midshipmen as deemed so by the Naval Academy and the United States Navy. So, if you have a problem with that option being available, I think you had better take up the debate at a much higher level.</p>
<p>And as far as not helping an “unsat” classmate - maybe, at a latter date, this midshipman who is striving for the Medical Corps will have the opportunity to suture the “unsat” classmate’s wound and save his life.</p>
<p>Also, a significant number of these unrestricted line patriots are going to graduate and be 5-and-out. Getting into the Medical Corps out of the Naval Academy virtually commits that midshipman to a career in the Navy. I call that dedication.</p>
<p>If he went to a civilian university - he would be able to leave the Navy much sooner and enter private practice and, certainly, make much more money. This is hardly selfish.</p>
<p>I’m aware of the mentality of the typical midshipman. These are great kids who are volunteering during a time of war. And, for the most part, they want to be part of that war. Those who desire to pursue the Medical Corps are certainly seen in a different light. Some have a difficult time understanding WHY they would want to come to a service academy if they do not want to be at the “tip of the spear.” There is certainly a some prejudice in that area - and some of that is being reflected in this thread.</p>
<p>This kind of attitude prevailed in the days when women were admitted into the service academies, yet, they were not permitted to serve in combat. The popular question then was, “Why are you here? What good are you? Why don’t you just go to a civilian university, or an NROTC program, because you’re probably going to be in the Supply Corps anyway.”</p>
<p>The general requirements to go to med school are no more rigorous than those for VGEP. I guess everyone who desires graduate education should be put under the same generalizations that Mombee stated.</p>