<p>mom2collegekids–well, she started with about 30 schools, I don’t know that her “parents narrowly restricted apps” by any means. We actually pushed her to look at MORE schools that were good fits for her. Again, we are looking strictly at senior that applied to med school and were accepted first try. Because we are not caught up in prestige, there are a LOT of schools out there that have stats like I posted. Feel free to research smaller, midwest LAC…</p>
<p>You misread my post. Your child isn’t applying to SOMs is she??? Isn’t she applying to UNDERgrads? </p>
<p>My point was about parents who narrowly restrict which SOMs their kids can apply to. Some only let their kids apply to top-ranked SOMs.</p>
<p>The UCs have a LOT of med school applicants, many who probably don’t have the stats to be a good applicant, but no one is preventing them from applying. I suspect that the UCs also have a number of kids who are only allowed to apply to “top SOMs” (parent restrictions). So the rejection of a bunch of unqualified applicants or the rejection of kids whose parents narrowly restricted apps is not a reflection on the school.</p>
<p>But, again, which undergrads are boasting 95% -100% acceptance rates to US MD med schools???</p>
<p>I still think this whole concept of a college “getting” its students to med school is bizarre.</p>
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<p>I agree and this is where some students who have chosen to attend these schools can be hurt by their choice. They could have been accepted, but since their school wanted their numbers so badly, they didn’t support their application so the student never applied. Be VERY careful with these schools.</p>
<p>I’ve also looked a little further into a couple of smaller schools who boasted similar stats (not 95% - 100% though) and found that not all got accepted into US med schools. Some ended up in the Caribbean. </p>
<p>Numbers may be VERY misleading.</p>
<p>SteveMA.</p>
<p>Your statistics are way off. </p>
<ol>
<li>There is not a school in the country that can boast acceptance rates in the 95-100% on the first try. Your list of at least 11 midwestern LACs with 95%+ acceptance rates is completely bogus. </li>
</ol>
<p>Amherst, unquestionably one the top LACs in the country, only claims an acceptance rate of around 80% on their first try, which would be typical of the top LACs and private universities. The average is typically around the 50% mark. </p>
<p>For the cohort of students at Amherst applying to medical school between 2000 and 2004.</p>
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<p>They claim a 90% acceptance rate among well qualified students, i.e. among those witth high GPA and MCAT scores and only 40% for the others, which again is not surprising. medical school acceptance is mostly stat driven. </p>
<ol>
<li>No school send most of its applicants to med school just after graduation. The average age on enrollement to medical school is now 25. The number of students waiting a year or more has been rising steadily. Direct applicants are now the exception and that applies across the board from Harvard on down. </li>
</ol>
<p>Willams College claims the following distribution among its applicants:</p>
<p>25% enrolling upon graduation
25% taking one gap year
50% taking more than one gap year.</p>
<p>Take Carleton, arguably the top LAC in the midwest.</p>
<p>In their graduating survey, they show 9 students only enrolling in medical school with 27 intending to apply in the future or about he same 25%. These 9 students represent less than 3% of the graduating class and probably less than 10% of the students who expressed an interest in a medical career on matriculation to Carleton. </p>
<p>The increased competition for spots, the length of the application process makes it harder and harder to complete all the prerequisites and be ready to apply by the end of the junior year. Also, the application process makes it virtually impossible to study abroad junior year, if one wants to enroll in medical school on graduation. </p>
<p>Having just had a child successfully go through the medical school application process, my take is that the college attended has in the end very little influence in the ultimate chance of success for admission to med school. Most good universities and LACs have solid health professional advising. They all provide the necessary premed class requirements and access to volunteering opportunities. Even universities with their own medical schools don’t necessarily perform better. In the end, the outcome is mostly driven by the student’s determination and hard work. It is a grueling process and does take away a lot of the enjoyment of a college experience.</p>
<p>Colleges don’t get students accepted into med school, students do.</p>
<p>cellardweller==again, we are talking about last year’s seniors that APPLIED to medical school that got in on the first try-not overall stats for freshman that came into school saying they were going pre-med, dropped into another major or those thinking about applying in 2 or 3 years. You use what you want for your college selection process and we will use what we want. Why do you care? Colleges most certainly do help students get into medical school but offering challenging courses, good advisory and opportunities for students to get what they need to get into medical school. You can split hairs all you want over the term “placement” but it still boils down to the same thing.</p>
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<p>That IS what I am referring to. The data for Amherst is for those students that APPLIED and on their first try. They are obvioulsy not quoting rates for people that didn’t even apply. </p>
<p>There is NO school with the 95-100% admission statistic you are quoting. Whatever school told you that simply lied to you. Over 80% admission on the first try is a GREAT number. </p>
<p>Med school don’t care about how challenging your college classes were. Actually a challenging course load will probably hurt rather than help by lowering your GPA. You don’t get bonus points from any advanced science classes. Non science majors do as well or better than science majors. </p>
<p>As far as relying on advising, any college with a decent career office has solid premed advising: it just is not a big deal. If that is what the college sold you on, then at least try to get actual data on applicants; high/low GPA and MCAT scores for accepted students, high/low GPA and MCAT scores for rejected students. An interesting number you should ask from the target colleges would be how many students actually applied to medical school during their senior year and enrolled the following year. If the best LAC in the midwest had only single digit numbers, I doubt others will have many more. Most LACs actually discourage students from applying to med school early as the pre-professional process often detracts from getting a well-rounded liberal arts education or taking advantage of exchange programs.</p>
<p>My dollar’s worth (as opposed to 2 cents). Physician here. Have been interested/curious about today’s medical school application procedures.</p>
<p>The best school for getting into a medical school is the school that best fits your child. Just about any college can work as they all offer the required courses needed. Premed is an intention, not a major. The best major is the one that most interests the student. The best colleges are ones that offer that major and otherwise interest a person. You do your best work when you are happiest and are happiest at the best fit school. </p>
<p>How do you determine this school? First of all, forget any thoughts about gaming the system. Do not look at percentages or gross numbers who get into medical schools. A neighbor tried that- went to tier 4 school and not state flagship school because many get into medical school from there he said. He didn’t get perfect grades and was rejected all around (eventually went to a DO school). He missed out on a more challenging peer group and likely found things too easy and goofed off.</p>
<p>Most entering college freshmen will change their major, if they even have one. Your son could completely change his mind once he experiences all a top notch college has to offer. He may discover other fields that intrigue him. Many premed hopefuls do not do as well in the required chemistry courses. It is always a good idea to have a major(s) you love and can pursue as a plan B. Many premeds major in a science since they are interested in the subject- a love of science does go along with a love of medicine. But undergrad years are the time to indulge in all of the courses you can’t take in medical school and won’t have time for in decades after. A love of literature?- go ahead and be an English major. The downside is lack of overlap in many major/premed reqs. The upside is enjoying the college experience and being a well rounded, educated person.</p>
<p>Your state medical school is the one most likely to take your child. Even private medical schools usually get some state funding and may give instate students a closer look. State schools will accept students from their flagship (and likely other state schools). Top state students are found at the state flagship schools- many can’t afford private schools even if accepted.</p>
<p>The short answer. For now have your son look at schools that are an academic and social fit. Include your state flagship. Ignore trying to get into medical school at this stage. Once he is in college he will discover a lot more about himself and his goals. With a school athat suits him academically and in other ways he will thrive, do his best and be prepared for applying to medical schools. </p>
<p>Will he be best off in a small to medium school competing with many other premeds for the top grades? Will he be best off in the Honors program at a large research U- public or private- where there are many students in the sciences who DON’T want to go to medical school? Eliminate medical school goals and the best school will be the one that fits him.</p>
<p>PS- the caliber of your state flagship may influence decisions. In Wisconsin UW-Madison outranks so many private schools many student choose it over good private schools. Your state may not have highly ranked public Us and have many good private schools. Differences in regions.</p>
<p>Agree fully with wis75 (physician’s spouse here, went through med school and residency together)</p>
<p>Addenda. Many medical schools will require some biochemistry and statistics now or soon. Colleges that sens students on to medical schools will be sure to have those available to meet demand.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl- your H had it made. Someone to take care of things when he was busy (plus you could start a family without taking time off). Times were changing for my generation- we women were still a small minority in the late 1970’s and have many discrimination stories. The medical marriges for many friends came after meeting classmates. I met my physician H years later. </p>
<p>Vastly different scene now for women, and therefore men. No longer a male dominated field as percentages nearly 50:50. Many spots men could count on now go to equally qualified women. Therefore- father of the HS student, it will be interesting to see what direction your child eventually chooses.</p>
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<p>I tend to agree with you, unless, perhaps, they are small, more unknown schools who are only sending a handful (or less) each year and carefully selecting who applies - or more correctly - who doesn’t, then counting overseas and DO too.</p>
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<p>And this illustrates the problem for schools with “top” rates. Many won’t support their “less-qualified” applicants since those would pull down their top rates. If Amherst had been in this category, there’d have been 20 less acceptances simply so a school could keep their advertised rate. Med schools considered those 20 qualified, but their 40% acceptance rate would have made them baggage for a school whose main focus is their numbers.</p>
<p>Be VERY careful when considering numbers. A school like Amherst would be a better choice for overall odds of getting in - not the school with better rates.</p>
<p>"Pizzagirl- your H had it made. Someone to take care of things when he was busy (plus you could start a family without taking time off). Times were changing for my generation- we women were still a small minority in the late 1970’s and have many discrimination stories. The medical marriges for many friends came after meeting classmates. I met my physician H years later. "</p>
<p>I’m talking the mid 80s for med school and late 80s/early 90s for residency. We are not that old 
I went back to grad school at night while working full time since he was so busy. And we deliberately postponed kids til after he was done residency. But yes, it’s a different world in practice today.</p>
<p>“Colleges most certainly do help students get into medical school but offering challenging courses, good advisory and opportunities for students to get what they need to get into medical school.”
-Challenging curses are offerred at every single UG, including the lowest ranked. At the top elite UGs though, there is a good chance that your challenging class is taught by TA as many top profs focus much more on their research (that bring grant money and increase ranking). At D’s state public, she did not have a single classe, a single lecture given by TA. More so, one of her most rigorous weed out class was taught by 3 profs being in a class at every lecture all time each teaching his own specialty.<br>
Again, research much closer than on-line. Visit, talk to current pre-meds, get a feel.
While in UG, D. has talked and compared UGs with many others from her private prep. HS. She realized even more how lucky she was choosing her UG.
-Opportunities will NOT exist/offerred to everyone. Very top kid from great HS will have many more opportunities in Honors at state school, I have no doubt about it. These kids are literally showered with ample of opportunites, they would have hard time choosing or they might decide spreading themselves very thin. All of that will result in awesome LORs and many recognitions at the highest level at graduation. The application will be loaded to max. My own kid just dropped some stuff on her application that others would be very happy to put on.<br>
-Again, the best pre-med advisory is not always at the most prestigious place. Everybody knows that the early application has a better chance. D. was done way before many even here on CC, she was ahead. Her pre-med advising was crucial as one of the schools that she applied have added requirements after she applied and registered for her fall semester. She had to change everything very quickly, even dropped one of her minors. Timely notification and help with new schedule was absolute pre-requisite in situation where we could have crisis. Ironically she was accepted to this Med. School, but choose to go to a different one.</p>
<p>Again and many more times, UG will NOT get applicant accepted, applicant will do it.</p>
<p>“Your state medical school is the one most likely to take your child. Even private medical schools usually get some state funding and may give instate students a closer look.”</p>
<p>This point by wis75 tends to get buried. Your state of residence has an enormous impact on the likelihood of acceptance. If you are from California, bad luck because you are competing for very few in-state seats. That means you will have to apply to private schools or other states’ medical schools (which are much more costly for out of state applicants) - and often those state schools give substantial preference to in-state residents (or accept no out-of-state residents at all.) If you are one of those who are lucky enough to come from a state which accepts only or mostly in-state residents, your chances of being admitted to the state medical school(s) are much higher than someone with better grades and MCAT scores from out of state. </p>
<p>What that means is that if you are from one of those states, protect your status as a resident! Pay state taxes, vote in your home state, keep your car registered there, etc… If you are from California - or a state where being a resident works against you - you will need higher grades and test scores and more money to go to med school. It is even worth considering establishing residency in a state that works to your advantage if that option is open to you. Check out New Mexico or Alabama or Kentucky - as examples.</p>
<p>“If you are from California, bad luck because you are competing for very few in-state seats.”
-Not really a bad luck if you are willing to apply OOS as most Californians do. They get accepted at much higher rate than others (maybe because there are so many of them?). I have looked at many and the biggest of them all is an example of D’s class. Very very many from Cal. At many places Cal. is the second most represented after in-state, but in D’s class, one single Cal. UG has beaten the school’s own pre-meds in numbers.</p>
<p>I went to med school after wis75 and about the same time Pizzagirl’s H did. I also agree that your instate med school should be your first choice, if your state has a good school, and even more if you’re lucky enough to be in a state with two or more med schools (like Wisconsin, where I’m from, also) and relatively underpopulated (wrt number of med school applicants). Less debt less debt less debt. And like UG/med school, once you’re in a good residency, no one cares where you went to med school either, if you’re a good resident. And yup, California kids-- you’re kinda screwed. Yes, you can apply OOS to other schools, esp free standing schools, but you’ll be paying for it.</p>
<p>Met my physician H my fourth year and also delayed kids til the end of residency. I was pregnant during my chief year in pediatrics-- what a sight, lol.</p>
<p>7 med. schools in our state!!! We love it.</p>