<p>My objective is to become a specialist in neurosurgery, thus being able to practice, but to also have the opportunity to do meaningful research in the neurosciences, neurology, (perhaps work on the mind-body problem, in addition to other more viable forms of research).</p>
<p>PhD/MD is the only option?</p>
<p>If you could provide any insight onto this, it would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>We have a son who is pursuing an MD/PHD through the MSTP (Medical Scientist Training Program) at UC-San Diego. What a wonderful program...we felt like he won the lottery when he was accepted to this as it is a fully funded program including a living stipend and insurance etc. More importantly, however, is the fact that it's exactly what he wants professionally. </p>
<p>If this is what you're after, I'd definitely say "GO FOR IT!" Our son attended Stanford as an undergraduate and then went on to do a year of research at Cancer Research UK. Like you, he is interested in the neurosciences and will most likely be doing his PHD work in this area. I would say that the MSTP seems to me to be geared to students who first and foremost are interested in the research end of medicine but want the clinical part to further compliment their lab work. Each program is different though, and there are some who's emphasis is PHYSICIAN/SCIENTIST(I think Duke is one) rather than SCIENTIST/PHYSICIAN. </p>
<p>I'm not sure about other ways to accomplish this, but if you have specific questions about the MSTP route, I'd be glad to help.</p>
<p>It is also possible to have the kind of career you describe with an MD degree alone. There are plenty of MD neuroscience medical school profs and researchers at medical institutes. There are some with PhD degrees only too, but they of course cannot practice medicine as well.</p>
<p>So definitely go fo the MD/PhD program, but if you don't get in the program you want, a straight MD program can often work out just as well.</p>
<p>The NIH funded MSTP programs, which pay tuition for a MD/PhD program, have their limitations. Competition is extremely intense. As one faculty member I know who has reviewed applications for these positions told me, the ones who succeed "walk on water". He sometimes could not believe they were for real.</p>
<p>The other downside is the service requirement. You didn't expect anything from DC to be free, did you?</p>
<p>If the OP is just starting college, the best (s)he could do is get some research experience to see if the life really appeals. There are many kids who are fascinated by the excitement of emerging science, only to find out the work itself is pretty tedious, not to mention isolating. That's one reason why NIH has to work pretty hard (funded MSTP, preference for MDs in research funding) to get some personality types involved in research.</p>
<p>A lot of NIH funding is now going for what they call translational research. This is a collaborative effort where an MD works with a PhD. The reason this is now the focus is that MDs tend to be high in clinical significance and low in laboratory technique while PhDs tend to be the opposite. One reason not to think that combining the degrees would solve the problem is that there only 24 hours in a day. It would be difficult devote the time to be a good surgeon and still have time to be a great laboratory director.</p>
<p>"It would be difficult devote the time to be a good surgeon and still have time to be a great laboratory director."</p>
<p>How true. I know of a number of MD/PhD faculty members at "a major east coast medical school" none of whom practice medicine. It is really not fair to patients to be a part time doc.</p>
<p>If you want to be a surgeon, do you also want to devote the 3-5 years necessary to get a PhD AND another 2 or so in a postdoc, on top of your 5+ year residency? MD/PhD makes sense for pathology or neurology - where a fair amount of your clinical work is similar to wetlab stuff. For surgery, it doesn't seem to be worth it.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>A lot of NIH funding is now going for what they call translational research. This is a collaborative effort where an MD works with a PhD.>> Well, sort of; in a talk by a doctor to my PhD class, translational research was described as research that will directly benefit patients (as opposed to the multitude of collaborational research that is more basic, i.e. immunologist + surgeon doing work with animals) - work that isn't as Nobel worthy as basic science.</p> </blockquote>
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<p>For many people, the appeal of the MD/PhD is partly the free tuition. For that, though, you should remember that 1) there are other ways to pay for medical school and 2) doctors are less likely to completely pay back educational loans than are people of any other profession. The other thing about research, is that, as a research surgeon, you will be in relatively high demand, hence a lot of PhDs are going to want to collaborate with you. There are also MD programs specifically geared for future researchers (i.e. the HST MD program at Harvard/MIT, Johns Hopkins MD program).</p>
<p>I guess the example I'm looking at is Peter Agre, who is a professor at John Hopkins Univeristy and winner of the 2003 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. He's both a medical doctor (hematologist - blood specialist) as well as a researcher.</p>
<p>Is surgery that much longer...</p>
<p>Hmmm...</p>
<p>Undergraduate Degree Completion: Age 20
MD/PhD Program: Age 27
Surgery: Age 33</p>
<p>Tough call. Shame there's not 36 hours in a day. Guess I'll have to settle for just neurologist.</p>
<p>The main reason why I'm looking at this option is it appears that you get everything.</p>
<p>Research wise, with regards to the mind-body problem I get to indulge in quantum mechanics, psychology, neuroscience, networks and philosophy to my heart's content - that's a challenge; then the option is probably open to teach, teaching would also be awesome.</p>
<p>Then I also get to enjoy the challenge and rigors of being a practicing surgeon running a business of sorts, with the great feeling of helping people that's even more amazing than teaching; as well as making a reasonable income that while might not be lavish, would allow for a upper middle class lifestyle presumably.</p>
<p><em>shrugs</em> The closest thing to the ideal of the modern Renaissance man experience.</p>
<p>Hey Chancellor-Phoenix,
I am in the same predicament - deciding between MD or MD/PhD. Though I am only a high school senior, this decision plays a role in where I go for undergrad. As you pointed out, MD/PhD surgeons only graduate in their 30s, so a 7 yr BA/MD program may be good to cut off a year. The MD/PhD is definitely attractive, but if worst comes to worst, an MD can still do research. Does anyone have advice about their MD/PhD experience?</p>
<p>arpesh,</p>
<p>You're waaaay to early in this process. It's good to be thinking about choices now, but you'll be in a much better position to gather information when you're in college, especially if you attend a research uni that has MD/Ph.D. faculty. </p>
<p>The KEY criterion for admission to a md/phd program is undergrad research experience, so that should be your short term goal. As soon as you've decide where you're going next year, start researching the faculty. Plan a visit to the campus to visit faculty that might consider undergrads in their lab (not all will) and start working to find a lab home. </p>
<p>The research experience will do everything to help you decide a course. Some love the experience, some don't.</p>