Medical School Placement Number Tricks

Colleges and Universities A-Z Emory University
1

<p>I have been reading through this website and every once in a while there will be someone who will say "wow, Emory's med school acceptance rate is very low for a university of its calibre". For some odd reason, I have even witnessed Emory students who were suggesting that, because of the low med school acceptance rate numbers, Emory's pre med program is rather weak... the poster said that Emory's pre med has a long way to go to catch up to Cornell/Rice/Duke etc. Well, let me address this whole problem.</p>

<p>All of you have to realize that, at most top schools, students with a sub 30 and sub 3.0 GPA are simply not supported by the school at all and are weeded out. Emory's low med school acceptance rate is because everyone, even those who have 2.5 GPA and 24 MCAT, apply to med school... Why do you think other schools don't break up their med school acceptance rate based on specific MCAT and GPA like Emory does? Because it would show the same trend as Emory's numbers show. </p>

<p>Rice, for example, claims to have a 90% med school acceptance rate but a 2.8 GPA and 25 MCAT student from Rice would have a hard time getting into med school as well...Its not that Emory's pre med program that needs work... their deceiving skills are not as good as some of the other university's. You go to Emory... you really should have better knowledge about your own school. </p>

<p>Let me address some of the tricks that these other schools use to inflate their "med school acceptance rate"</p>

<p>1)First of all, many simply weed out applicants. This is well known and apparently occurs at top schools like Johns Hopkins.</p>

<p>2) I have been to many school websites and most schools just say "Students with over 3.4 GPA and 30 MCAT have a 90% chance of getting into med school". They pretty much leave out the other students, who many score lower. Emory is one institution that does NOT do this.</p>

<p>Evidence:</p>

<p>Here, take a look at this... from Cornell's website(one of the schools an Emory student claimed was superior to Emory's pre med)</p>

<p>Accepted/Applied</a> Charts for Health Careers</p>

<p>"Eighty percent of those Cornellians with a GPA of 3.4 or better were accepted to medical school in 2009."</p>

<p>That means that Emory's med school acceptance rate is actually pretty equal to Cornell's since Emory's is like ~80% for students with over 3.4 GPA. Emory does not post that 80% number but rather posts the overall ~50% ish number for all of its students.</p>

<p>3)Another trick that medical schools use is that they publish the medical school acceptance rate of the seniors... and not the other year's students(junior year applicants usually have lower med school acceptance rates). For example, Boston College uses BOTH these above tactics and look at the inflated result:</p>

<p>The</a> Waiting Period - Boston College</p>

<p>"in 2006, 91% of BC's senior medical school applicants with a minimum GPA of 3.2 and a minimum MCAT score of 9.0 were admitted to at least one accredited medical school."</p>

<p>Now you might look at BC's numbers and say "Wow, 91 %" but look at the pre-conditions in those sentences. Atleast 3.2 Gpa, at least 9.0 on each section (so 27 total on the MCAT) and ONLY seniors...also, these numbers are outdated by 4 years and we all know med school applications have become more competitive... these combinations of tactics used by BC excludes many, many applicants and that is why they claim their med school acceptance rate is 91%. </p>

<p>It is not that Emory's pre med is weaker than those schools. Its that other schools use a plethora of techniques to inflate these numbers... In fact, Emory is the ONLY school that I have seen that publishes med school acceptance rates and breaks them down by GPA and MCAT numbers... This is the chart:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.career.emory.edu/parents/pdf/Applicants_Emory_2009_Matrix.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.career.emory.edu/parents/pdf/Applicants_Emory_2009_Matrix.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Do NOT be fooled by other schools' dirty tricks. I ask people to use common sense. Why would Emory's med school acceptance rate be so low when schools far inferior claim to have a 90 % or so med school acceptance rate. If that does not raise red flags, I do not know what will.</p>

2

<p>I don’t understand the point of your post?</p>

<p>Good Job at stating the obvious?</p>

<p>BTW, no top 20 school screens its applicants, only Johns Hopkins does.</p>

3

<p>You claimed in another thread that premed at Emory has ways to go before it gets to the level of Rice/Duke/Cornell… and the basis of your argument was that Emory has a relativelylow med school acceptance rate. I am pointing out that this is because Emory does not employ the tactics that I mentioned while schools like Cornell do. With that in mind, what is your basis for claiming that Emory pre-med is inferior to the pre-med at those other schools? </p>

<p>Also, how would you know what JHU is the only top 20 school that screens. Maybe other schools do not explicitly do so, but there are many ways to do it in a subtle manner.</p>

4

<p>One of the main reasons for Emory’s med school acceptance rate being lower than usual is, until this year, a premed office. They have instituted the Pre Health Mentoring Office this year and Emory has already had 4 acceptances into Harvard med this year alone (first time anyone from Emory has been accepted into Harvard in the past decade). The final numbers have not been released, but I am sure we will see an overall increase in the total % as well. </p>

<p>What makes Emory’s prehealth office different from most other top 20 universities is that they will do whatever it takes to get any student into med school, regardless of GPA and scores. Most other offices spend time convincing their students with low stats to not apply or they will refuse to write them a composite letter, neither of which Emory does or has done. </p>

<p>The ~50% rate for Emory is for ALL of their applicants. I believe the point alam1 is trying to make is that basically other universities don’t include the applicants in their overall med school percent who they told not to apply or they refused to write composite letters for. </p>

<p>I look forward to seeing the improvement in Emory’s med school rates this year and coming years from all of their applicants. Clearly with the 4 Harvard med acceptances already, the backing of the pre health office at Emory is making Emory’s applicants much more competitive than in past years.</p>

5

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<p>^^^ So Emory itself thinks it needs to improve. I read an article published by Emory’s medical school that said that Emory Undergrad has to make critical improvements in its pre-med adivising department.</p>

<p>Another point that alarm1 is not understanding is that if you look at Emory’s charts, you will see that 50 percent of the pre-meds at Emory can’t even score above a 30 on the mcats. This is not true at other schools like Cornell/Rice/Vanderbilt. I am not the only one who has noticed this. Check out these threads in the pre-med topics portion of CC:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/507800-emory-pre-med.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/507800-emory-pre-med.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Look at post 22, by NorCalguy, he went to Cornell and then later attended a top medical school.</p>

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<p>@Alam1 Until you can explain why 1/2 kids who are pre-med at Emory can’t score above a 30 on the MCATs, a standarized test, your thread is ■■■■■■■■, because other top schools have tons of kids who score above a 30. NO OTHER TOP 20 SCHOOL BESIDES JHU ACTUALLY SCREENS ITS APPLICANTS, in other words, no other top 20 school tells applicants they can’t apply to medical school, except for Johns Hopkins. Get your facts right first…</p>

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<p>^^^ Because I have friends that go to other schools. I know tons of kids who go to Rice, Vanderbilt, Cornell, and thats what they told me. JHU explicity screens by not giving students a committee letter. </p>

<p>Emory plans to follow in JHU’s footsteps, I talked to one of the people in the Pre-health office, and they told me that soon, kids who don’t meet a certain mcat, gpa, won’t get a committee letter which will hurt those applicants more. THIS IS WHAT JHU does, and EMORY plans on doing the same.</p>

6

<p>Look, I know Emory has its problems with the advising program… but I am trying to point out that other schools inflate their data to make it seem like a higher med school placement rate than it is in reality.</p>

<p>You say that Emory pre-health advising is a problem. That does not explain why 1/2 the kids can’t get a 30 on the MCAT. Honestly, how would I know? I don’t even go to Emory yet. I assume that Emory bio and chem classes focus on different material than is covered by the MCAT. Studying over a summer cannot make up for poor classroom preparation. Emory has to deal with that.</p>

<p>I never claimed that other Top 20 schools other than JHU screen applicants… all I said is that such a fact would be hard to know even if your “freinds” say so. Also, can I ask what year you are at Emory?</p>

7

<p>My S and I were at Emory last week and specifically asked if they “weed out” or select those that get the composite letter. The Dean in charge, Dr Ram, answered that anyone who wants a letter will get one. If everyone can apply, you would expect the numbers of admitted students to be lower than if the college “pre-selects” who is allowed to apply. It is therefore very difficult to compare “percent admitted to med school” without knowing if all applicants or only selected applicants are counted.</p>

8

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<p>^^^ Your thread makes it seem like thats the only reason that other comparable schools have higher percentages then emory does. Its not. </p>

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^^^ They probably don’t advise students on the “best” way to prepare for the MCATs, when to prepare, how to prepare, how long to prepare, what resources they should use to prepare, etc. </p>

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I will be a sophomore next year. </p>

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You were saying that other top 20 schools stop applicants from applying (NO SCHOOL WILL TELL YOU, YOU CAN’T APPLY TO MEDICAL SCHOOL,) which is true unless you are looking at JHU. </p>

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Yes they don’t “weed out” or tell kids they can’t apply to medical school. However, schools like EMORY, Rice, Vanderbilt, Cornell, make their science classes difficult so only the best students make the grades necessary to make into medical school. Since it happens at Emory, and at other top schools, it doesn’t explain Emory’s low pre-med acceptance rate. </p>

<p>Emory’s Medical School has explicitly told Emory’s Undergrad that they need to make KEY CRITICAL CHANGES to bring Emory’s Pre-Med program on par with other “peer” schools. (Ie Cornell, Rice, Vanderbilt, Brown)</p>

<p>I am going to let this thread die, because all this thread does is make excuses for a pre-med program that NEEDS MAJOR CHANGES. HAHA funny thing was that the op made this thread simply because in another post, I made the statement that Emory’s pre-med program needs a lot of work.</p>

9

<p>I know this is not going to be PC but I supect Emory’s diversity may be affecting the acceptance numbers. While the diversity at Emory has enhanced my son’s college experience (he chose Emory over other schools due to the diversity), it can also hurt the racially diverse applicant. While this helps an African American applicant, I suspect it hurts other racially diverse applicants. Does this explain all the questions asked by colleges, no, but I think it is an important issue. For full disclosure purposes, I am a caucasian male MD who was involved with medical school admissions as a medical student and my son is currently an Emory Scholar who loves the premed program at Emory. He has found the school has far exceeded his expectations with multiple opportunities to seek help from professors, study abroad in the summer (he is going to London this summer to study comparative health care systems under the CIPA program), extensive research opportunities in the college/med school/graduate programs, and great advice from anyone you are willing to take the time to talk too. In the end, Emory has great opportunities, you simply must pursue them and make them happen. As an example, my son plans on doing an MD/PhD and he has talked to the head of the Emory Med School program and sought his advice on undergraduate course work and research opportunities. The director was more than happy to arrange an appt with a second semester freshman. He has taken Chem from the same prof each semester, worked with the prof on Chemory (chem demo team), gone on chem seminar with prof in SF (at schools expense) and has eaten at this profs home. Do you think he will be able to get a good recomendation? Again, I think many Emory students do not avail themselves to such wonderful opportunities as it takes extra effort. Emory is an outstanding college to do premed. I did! Anyway, here is a link to my theory.</p>

<p><a href=“http://aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table2-7-mwhite-web.pdf[/url]”>http://aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table2-7-mwhite-web.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

10

<p>I don’t like the idea that chem and bio at Emory not focusing on pre-med stuff is equivalent to creation of a poor environment, as if these classes should exclusively cater to pre-meds. And bio actually does specifically cater to pre-meds (perhaps a bit too much), and is probably tougher than most schools because of its heavy emphasis on molecular genetics. Don’t know if the same should be said for chemistry. But these courses are hard enough to challenge people, and I don’t think they should be geared toward pre-meds. They should encompass everything possible, or be completely neutral in terms of the type of student being targeted. If Emory only targets pre-meds, then it’ll never increase the number of students willing to pursue “non-professional” graduate studies. I hate the idea that science classes should be geared toward helping people with MCATS.</p>

<p>Emorydeac: that sounds like the do it yourself, Emory hands you nothing mentality I spoke of in another thread.</p>

11

<p>^^ I think it is the “Emory Way” and maybe this is part of the problem they are attempting to address. I simply do not want people to portray Emory as inferior to some of the other schools mentioned (Rice, Cornell etc) as there are many things much better about Emory than theses other schools and perhaps you have identified the weakness.</p>

<p>I also wonder if the Oxford to Emory students have any impact on these statistics. </p>

<p>Emory seems to take student concerns to heart on most matters. This year is the first year for a premed committee letter (as the lack of a committee was deemed to be a weakness in acceptances to top medical schools) and we will see if this improve the admit rate.</p>

<p>Either way, Emory is certainly a great school especially if you are premed.</p>

12

<p>I don’t know about the Oxford students. I’ve heard that they often perform better than Emory students once they get here, at least in context of coursework. I wouldn’t know about MCATS. Plus they carry over their Oxford GPAs, which may be lower than the typical Emory GPA. This, I hear, is because they often take larger course loads.</p>

13

<p>On another thread I asked the many Oxford people who purported this to provide me with a link to back up this ridiculous claim. Of course, none can be found. Reminds me of an episode of “Myth Busters”.</p>

14

<p>Does it have to be “rediculous”? It could be unfounded and poorly supported, but the idea of it being truth shouldn’t be impossible. Given that they have to complete college GERs and stuff like that plus start their pre-med requirements, it could get rough. It’s possible that the actual “workload” (as in graded work) was heavier there (Oxford may have a different approach, I wouldn’t know). Many science lectures here have extremely manageable (or none, like in biology) graded workload to be done outside of class. In other words, our lectures seem to primarily ride on exams and quizzes, which could be good or bad. As long as there is no “Tech effect” (so much graded work to be done outside of class that there is almost no time left to specifically study for exams), it is good. However, having extra work to be graded could be a grade booster. I don’t know. Maybe I should ask some of my Oxford friends if they perceive a difference.</p>

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<p>^^^ Haha, I know what you mean, rofl, my friends who want to go to grad programs in the sciences HATE this type of teaching.</p>

16

<p>^ This is random but colleges00701, what is your GPA at Emory now? You are premed correct?</p>

17

<p>Do Emory Premeds get better chance of getting into Emory Med than from other schools?</p>

18

<p>No because Emory’s med school doesn’t like the way the college teaches its premed classes</p>

19

<p>^I don’t believe this.</p>

20

<p>Then I don’t know why you asked. My friend’s parents both work for the med school, so believe whatever you want but it’s true.</p>