Medicine or Computer Science?

College Majors
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Hello -

I have a niece who is a junior at a very competitive high school at which she is in the top 2%. She has taken 6 AP classes (all 5’s on exams) and got an 800 SAT Subject Test score in Math II and Biology. She got a 1570 SAT on her first sitting. This year, she’s taking 6 AP courses. She is interested in both computer science and medicine and has extracurricular/volunteer experience in both. She can’t decide between the two fields. No tuition/fees constraint. Her school counselor feels her profile is elite.

Medicine pros -
helping others
will not face ageism

Medicine cons -
long journey

Ageism is the main drawback for technology.

One option is that she could pursue a degree in computer science and meet the prerequisites for medicine, but she has been told it’s not easy because computer science is a demanding major. She would like to be clear about her major before going into senior option. If she chooses medicine, one option could be a BS/MD (highly selective for ORM). For computer science, she would aim for a selective college. Given that she is interested in (and has experience for) both fields and seeks stability as well as a good salary, which one would you recommend? Any others who have faced a similar situation? Thanks all for your help.

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Also, expensive – most new physicians start their careers hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Note also that getting into medical school is a high reach goal – most frosh pre-meds get weeded out before the application stage (college GPA or MCAT too low is a common reason), and only about 40% of those who apply to (usually dozens of) medical schools get admitted (most get into only one, so there is no opportunity to choose a less expensive one). BA/BS->MD programs are highly selective, and typically have high college GPA and/or MCAT weed-out requirements to retain the medical school admission. These GPA and/or MCAT requirements are often similar to the levels needed to have a chance of admission the regular way, but being in the program allows skipping the expensive and stressful process of applying to (usually dozens of) medical schools.

If she wants to do pre-med, what would she major in? She can major in CS and take the pre-med courses, but it may be more difficult at a college where the CS major is engineering-based or where there are heavy general education requirements that do not overlap with the CS major or pre-med courses. Math, statistics, or data science with some CS courses may be an alternative. The more common pre-med majors in biological science do not have good major-related job and career prospects at the BA/BS level, because of the competition from numerous failed pre-meds.

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Regarding ageism in computing (and probably other) employment… some of it may actually be a correlated phenomenon where a highly experienced person is likely to be seen as looking for a high level job, even if they are looking for or are willing to accept a mid level job. The perception is that the highly experienced person is looking for a pay level that is too high, or would only stay in a mid level job for a short time until finding a high level job.

This perception may be greater than reality, since there are not that many high level jobs compared to mid level jobs. But the perception tends to create an “up or out” situation as one gets more experienced.

Either way (or for just about any other profession), frugal personal finance habits would be highly helpful. A physician may finally see high pay levels after 11 to 15 years after starting college, but needs to dig themself out of hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical school debt before spending more than the minimum on other things (including their own retirement savings and their kids’ college).

In computing, the sometimes chaotic nature of companies means that changing and looking for jobs is common, and having a large amount of savings to live on between jobs (especially during industry downturns) is essential. Building up savings and investments to reach retirement levels early (“FIRE” goals) even if one does not initially intend to retire early can be helpful if forced out by the aforementioned age or seniority related difficulties.

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anyone who went through the bsmd process and thought of technology as a possible career choice at some point in the high school?

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bump

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I have a good friend who did the BS/MD program years ago. At the time some of the negatives were that she was one of the youngest in her medical school class and at that time (and perhaps this may still be the case) there are few top medical schools that are part of this program. You’re only really knocking one year off so unless there’s a hurry, there’s no real incentive to do this. In her case she was doing a 7 year fellowship and residency so by the time she finished she all she was on the older side. She did end up in a Top 5 program in the country for her field but as a single woman it was a long haul and she had had trouble meeting someone (she was way smarter than everyone she met) and finally years later met someone. We’re the same age (maybe I’m a year older) and my oldest is 23 and her oldest is 14 so as far as establishing career, etc it’s a long haul.

As for CS and then going to med school and doing the pre-reqs, no that should not be an issue. First, being a female in CS will definitely be a plus in terms of opening doors, even though many programs are going more towards 50/50 gender ratio, there are still fewer females applying which is a plus.

As for the major itself. Since pre-med is not a major, if she is truly interested in going to med school, then she would be best off going into a CS program where it’s in Liberal Arts as opposed to Engineering. Many schools have this option. Cornell is one specifically, UIUC is another. Both are top ranked programs. Cornell’s pre-med track however is brutal. Doing CS in Liberal Arts would require her to get the pre-med requirements completed more easily that way than if she were in Engineering since many of the Engineering courses are not required for pre-med and it can be a more demanding road. For instance, Biology is more often in the Arts and not Engineering, although some do have it as both. In any case in Liberal Arts she would be able to get the requirements she needed as part of her CS major and Liberal Arts degree which would also cover the pre-med requirements.

My daughter is a CS major but in Engineering and as far as demanding, her friends that are in ME or Chem E have way more demanding schedules than hers. She is likely to double minor which is a great option that her school has afforded her, or she could graduate early but it’s not something we’re pushing for her to do.

In any case, it is not at all impossible to do CS and go on to med school as there will be many people in just as difficult if not harder majors going on to the same thing and if you’re planning to go to med school you’re going to be working your tail off in college in any case. You just have to really like CS and/or medicine to want to go into either because they are so different.

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Thanks for your elaborate response! This is helpful.

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Your niece is a junior in high school and she’s worried about ageism?

I work in the technology field - in an even more insular subfield, video games. Very male, quite young. I…wouldn’t worry about ageism. It’s not that it doesn’t exist, but it’s more that experience and wisdom are just as valued (if not more so) than youth and vitality. There are people at my company who have been here 10, 15, 20+ years. We see the stereotype of the college dropout who started a tech company at 22, but the reason they’re so newsworthy is that they’re actually not that common. Most tech executives are the age you would expect a tech executive to be (in fact, most of the tech executives at the same companies as the college dropouts followed a more normal route).

Experience is valued. I’d recommend taking a look at any large tech company’s careers site right now; what you’ll likely notice is that there are FAR more positions for “senior” or “principal” or “lead” whatever listed than junior. Those positions are a lot harder to fill than the junior roles for the fresh grads, and people with experience often don’t have problems finding new roles in this industry (even with all the churn and start-ups closing or whatever). Yeah, you might not know the hottest programming language or whatnot that the kids are learning in school, but you’ve actually shipped something at a company or team, and THAT is much more valuable experience.

So I wouldn’t worry too much about ageism.

I often advise students to think a little more deeply into what they mean when they say they want to “help others,” as there are lots of ways to do that and medicine is by no means the only way. I work in tech, in UX research; my research focuses on accessibility, diversity, and inclusion, and I am also a people manager. I spend a lot of my time helping people, both directly and indirectly. It is immensely satisfying. Your daughter could help a lot of people in tech.

I’ll also throw out there that this is not necessarily a choice she has to make now - and, in fact, I don’t think it’s one she can make now. I don’t think BS/MD programs are worth it (for reasons already stated). You don’t have to major in anything in particular to go into either of these careers. She could major in CS and be pre-med, or she could major in something else, take CS classes, and be pre-med. She’s got plenty of time to decide - at least a year and a half, it sounds like.

One thing I will throw out there, though, is not to downplay the “long journey” con. I got my PhD, which is a shorter journey than medicine. While I don’t regret it at all, I do agree that spending 7-12+ of your prime earning (and childbearing, and youthful) years in school making very little money is…not fun. It’s something that I think only the truly passionate should pursue, personally. There are lots of jobs that have stability and a good salary and don’t require a decade of training, so unless she’s really really passionate about medicine I’d encourage her to continue exploring those other things.

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As I’m sure you know, one does not major in premed. All one needs to apply to med school is a year of English (usually done in high school for most people), a year of gen chem, organic chem, bio, and physics, all with lab. Some schools want calc or stat. Most people will have done the calc or stat in high school.

People should study whatever they like, whatever they can do well in. If they decide they want to do med school and haven’t finished the prereqs, they can do them at their local state college (NOT community college) afterwards, and still get in.

Four years of med school, three years of residency (minimum), more if you want to be a specialist. You spend your 20s working/studying the equivalent of 3 times a normal job, with high tuition and then slave pay. You get no sleep. Lots of stress. People should only go this path if they feel it is a calling for them, that this is the only career they see themselves in. But she doesn’t need to make this decision now - the door is not shut if she majors in comp sci, or anything else she likes.

I saw BS/MD people who just burned out, because they dashed through it all. I think it’s a very difficult way to do it. Best route is the cheapest one, that gives one a chance to develop into a full human being.

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Many medical schools want the premed course work done as college courses (preferably at a four year college) rather than as AP credit or community college courses. Students with AP credit should check on various medical schools’ preferences on upper level course substitution versus repeating AP credit before deciding what to do.

Also, upper level biochemistry and other courses are often recommended.

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That applies to the science classes. The English requirement, and the math, if required, can be done as AP or as dual enrollment. They’re concerned about the sciences having been done at a reputable 4 yr college. As for the additional coursework - they’re nice to show your ability, but they are NOT necessary. If a person has a high GPA, majored in something other than science, and has excellent MCATs, they’re not going to say, “But she didn’t take Biochem.” If your application is marginal, you can improve your chances with A’s in Biochem, genetics, whatever else you like. But it’s not necessary if you have stellar grades overall, in your required sciences, and a high MCAT score.