<p>I wondering about the possibility of working in a medium-size firm. I intend to shy away from biglaw particularly for the insane hours. I was wondering if anyone knows about the possibility of making around 200k a year working about 60-70 hrs at a medium size firm.</p>
<p>It's possible if you stay there long enough to reach that salary. You are not going to be making 200K <em>starting out</em> at a mid-sized firm.</p>
<p>Just because a firm may be medium-sized (although in the last 6-7 years, many medium-sized "boutique" law firms in cities across the U.S. have merged with larger firms (e.g. Fish & Neave with Ropes & Gray, O'Sullivan Graev & Karabell with O'Melveny & Myers, Riordan & McKinzie with Bingham McCutcheon), does not mean that you will necessarily work fewer hours. Law is a client service industry, and so your hours will depend more on the nature of your clients and the standards set for that client service by your firm than on the size of your firm. That said, you can safely assume that the vast majority of BIGLAW firms will indeed require you to work many unpredictable hours.</p>
<p>Exactly what Sallyawp said...you'll often end up working just as much, if not more, because you have to do the networking to attract clients who otherwise might choose a bigger firm. And staffing on cases might be leaner, so instead of having a bunch of associates who can share the work and cover for each other when needed, you might be the only associate on a case. Also, if your smaller firm bills you out at a lower rate than BigLaw would, more hours would be required to bring in the same money to the firm--and thus, to earn the same paycheck.</p>
<p>This fall, I interviewed with a mid-sized firm that's known for good work in my field of interest. They made it VERY clear that while the people were nice, this was NOT a "lifestyle" firm and that I'd be expected to bill as much as at the big places.</p>
<p>sally is making an excellent point that people really need to understand -- you don't avoid the crazy hours and demands of a law job simply by choosing a smaller firm!</p>
<p>when i was in law school i made a concerted effort to avoid BIGLAW (and I attended a top school, so BIGLAW options were open to me). i ended up at a small (less than 25) branch office of a non-NYC firm. i spent a summer there and thought i knew what i was getting in to. while it wasn't "as bad" as what classmates at NYC BIGLAW firms may have experienced -- it was everything that makes the practice of law incredibly demanding and stressful. deals need to close, so attorneys work round the clock. client calls on friday, so attorneys work the weekend. </p>
<p>so at my next career stop, i tried again to find more sanity at a law firm. went to work for a small (less than 20 lawyers) suburban boutique firm (ie specializing in one field of law). well, the partners there were determined to show that they were every bit as good as the BIGLAW firms in the city -- but if anything, being at a smaller firm, they seemed even more driven to make THEIR firm a success - the hours were even worse than at my prior job -- the demand and stress from the partners and the clients even greater. </p>
<p>and another thing to consider that i found at both firms -- given their smaller size, when a time consuming matter arose, there just weren't that many other attorneys around to spred the work around -- you knew every other associate and what they were working on and none of them ever seemed to have down time to help cover your overload. and if anything, the size seemed to give the partners a VERY personal stake in what was going on -- they worked insane hours with unwavering commitment to the job and they expected that of their associates.</p>
<p>since i never worked at a BIGLAW firm i can't judge how much worse, if at all, they are to what i experienced. i can only strongly caution from personal experience that going to a smaller firm does NOT guarantee a sane lifestyle.</p>
<p>and just some examples so you have an idea of "how bad" it was -- i knew attorneys criticized for getting married at inconvenient times, i knew attorneys asked to reschedule vacations on short notice, i knew attorneys who spent countless "vacation" hours on the phone dealing with some "crisis," i knew an attorney who was called while in the labor and delivery room with his wife, i knew attorneys who spent various holidays at the office instead of with their families, cancellation of weekend plans on a moments notice was common, never knowing what time you'd get home from work was common.</p>
<p>When you graduate, if you go to a firm that pays at the top of market, you are going to work your tail off...nothing is free. If you find a firm that pays maybe 15-20% below the top of market, you have a chance of having a life.</p>
<p>Just go to Biglaw, work your ass off and then if you want a slower pace, then when it comes time for partnership votes (usually 5th or 6th year), quit and try to get appointed to a judgeship or something. I hear federal district court judges serve for life as long as you're in good behavior (i.e. don't sleep with your clerk or murder anyone) and you want to continue being a judge.</p>
<p>And I guess if you're a biglaw associate-book refundable fares....?</p>
<p>futurenyu -- your post demonstrates a lack of understanding of how things work in the real world out there. partnership votes in the 5th or 6th year?? associates having the choice to stick around until they're up for partnership?? just choose to be appointed to a federal judgeship??</p>
<p>there are several of us here who have actually worked as lawyers who try very hard to offer information to allow prospective lawyers to make informed decisions as to their potential career paths. if you are dead set on proceeding with you intentions to work at a biglaw firm (before you've even applied to law schools), by all means go ahead -- from what you've posted, biglaw may be perfect for you. but posting misinformation in order to support your own conclusion as to the value of working at biglaw doesn't help anyone coming here for real advice.</p>
<p>Point out to me where I said you choose to be appointed for a federal judgeship. I said you can be appointed. I never said it's anything for certain. As for partnership votes in the 5th or 6th year, they do happen. It may not be common but they do.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It may not be common but they do.
[/quote]
Note :
[quote]
partnership votes (**usually **5th or 6th year)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>UM's reading of your post sounds very reasonable to me. But in any case you addressed only one of his/her three complaints.</p>
<p>actually - i only had one complaint -- that it doesn't help readers on this forums when people post as if they know more than they actually do. i think futurenyu's response was a very complete response to the point i was making. i think it very effectively helped further demonstrate my point. ;)</p>
<p>Also, the chances of being appointed to the federal bench after six years of private law practice as an associate at ANY firm are ZERO. It takes a lot more experience than that, serious smarts AND major connections. I clerked for a federal district court judge. He is, in a word, brilliant. He also had been in private practice as a partner at a top firm for more than 15 years, and was a Clinton appointee. I'm sure that the fact that he was a classmate of Bill Clinton's at Yale law school didn't hurt. His credentials are fairly typical for the federal bench.</p>
<p>Okay, I was wrong, UM is god. Happy?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I was wondering if anyone knows about the possibility of making around 200k a year working about 60-70 hrs at a medium size firm.
[/quote]
You didn't provide a definition of what you consider to be a medium size law firm. Under my difinition of 8 to 20 lawyers, you can make that kind of money, but it will take 10 to 15 years to do so. It all depends on how good you are at building a clientel.</p>