Mega Thread: Calling on all current & prospective ROTC parents

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>S2 is a die hard ROTC hopeful. He is a junior in HS. Since ROTC scholarship application is another curve ball in this stressful college admissions game, I have been collecting information to help him prepare better well in advance. </p>

<p>Though a right forum for this thread is Service Academy Parents' site, the foot traffic is VERY LIGHT there. I got ton of ROTC related input from this regular Parents Forum when I put a question that is not even particularly about ROTC (just a passing statement). See <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/784585-if-non-issue-public-schools-would-you-prefer-private-ones-3.html#post1063290831%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/784585-if-non-issue-public-schools-would-you-prefer-private-ones-3.html#post1063290831&lt;/a> </p>

<p>Obviously, there are many parents who are in a position to share information and insights on ROTC are not necessarily visiting the service academy site.</p>

<p>Hence, I am starting this thread. I hope it will be maintained as an on-going thread (just like some other mega threads like "parents of class of 2013" with tens, hundreds of visitors), where parents just drop by and provide whatever input they see fit.</p>

<p>I will start by sharing what I learned by calling professor of military science (PMS) of one of the ROTC units S2 is interested in. This was in response to a question by one of the prospective parents going through the Army ROTC scholarship application process in the service academy parents forum. The question was, it is worth traveling to the ROTC unit of her son's first choice to be interviewed by the PMS of that unit. My response is below. </p>

<p>I hope this kicks off this thread.</p>

<hr>

<p>This is the input I got from a commander of the unit my son may be interested (he is still a junior in HS), and ALSO a commander at a state flagship university.</p>

<p>When the scholarship applications are considered by the selection board, they pick "likelies" and then send the student data to the local units that serve the schools listed on the application. The military science professor (PMS) looks at the student data, and say "yey or nay". If the local unit PMS says no, it's a serious uphill battle. If he says yes, that's great.</p>

<p>The PMS's decision is based on three factors</p>

<p>(1) do I want this kid in my unit?
(2) if I give him a "go", does he have stats good enough that the adcoms of the school he is applying to that is served by my unit accept him?
(3) will he likely come to my unit if I accept him?</p>

<p>The interesting thing is, if a local PMS approves the candidate, it's a good indication that the kid does have a very good chance to get into the university too, since the last thing he needs is to fill the slot in his unit and then have the kid rejected. When that happens often enough, he will have a real logistical program toward the end of the admit season.</p>

<p>The point made in (3) above is an interesting quirk. Just like adcoms in selective universities, the ROTC units also care great deal about yield. No local commander wants to "give away" positions to kids who will not come. When that happens, he will have to scramble toward the end of the admit season to fill all the positions. The unit commander of a unit at a local flagship university told me that if the candidate's stats are TOO GODD, he won't accept him because it's clear that the candidate will go to a better school. </p>

<p>Conclusion: if your kid has a school and ROTC unit he really likes, you SHOULD DEFINITELY GO there and interview with the PMS of that unit, since he has the veto right. Better yet, you can have multiple interviews with multiple PMS at multiple units.</p>

<p>On top of that, that PMS may become part of the selection board committee. The PMS I talked to told me that if my son interviews with him, and he likes my son, and if that PMS so happens to be selected to be part of the selection board of the upcoming board meeting, and if the kid has good statistics, the odds are VERY GOOD that he will get the scholarship offer, PROVIDED that you son applied early enough during the season - application in for the first selection board meeting on.</p>

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<p>Well, if you are an ROTC fan, you’ve got to have Texas A&M on the list. My brother did four and a half years there in the Corps of Cadets. He loved it. He went on to be a career Marine. I believe A&M is the largest ROTC program outside of the military academies. </p>

<p>It is a huge, football-mad school. It is gung-ho and full of school spirit. It’s not for everyone but those that love it love it with an undying passion. Definitely worth an in-depth look.</p>

3

<p>S (freshman) just joined Air Force ROTC at WPI. He didn’t apply for a ROTC scholarship when applying to schools, but he thinks if he ends up committing, we’ll be reimbursed for tuition. After 4 weeks, he’s very enthusiastic, so we’ll see.</p>

4

<p>My son received a 4 year Navy ROTC scholarship. He is a Sophomore this year. I’m happy to answer questions on NROTC and the DODMERB process.</p>

<p>The NROTC selection process is quite different than Army. All selections are done by a Board and the college units have no input. The Navy is requiring that 85% of 4-year scholarships be awarded to students majoring on Engineering, Math, or hard Science. You can’t say you will be a Physics major, be awarded the scholarship, and then change to a non-technical major. You lose your scholarship. </p>

<p>The DODMERB physical and process is different too. Ever taken meds for ADD? Automatic DQ.</p>

<p>The current minimum committment is 4 years active, 4 years reserve. Aviation and certain other billets are longer. Starting with the current batch of applications for Fall 2010 the minimum committment is 5 years active, 3 years reserve.</p>

5

<p>S1 just received his commission in May (NROTC). He is now an Ensign and will report to his first duty station in 2 weeks. So we’ve been through the NROTC experience from start to finish. I’m happy to answer any NROTC questions too.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Not necessarily. The son of very good friends of ours did just that. He is a Navy ROTC scholarship cadet who started out with full intentions of being an engineering major but realized after the first year that he was not going to be able to complete an engineering degree. He requested and received permission to change his major to history. He is due to graduate in December and it’s looking good for him to be accepted to flight school.</p>

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<p>A big plus for being competitive for ROTC scholarships is either JROTC in high school, Civil Air Patrol, or Sea Cadets. The PMS can get a feel for the applicant’s leadership potential by looking at his progress in these organizations.</p>

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<p>Timely:</p>

<p>The reason your son was approved to switch was that he was grandfathered. The 85% rule did not take effect until the class of 2013. Any midshipman coming in now will not have the ability to switch to a tier 3 major and retain their scholarship.</p>

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<p>Yes, Iron Maoden is right. Most of the midshipmen in S’s det. changed their engineering majors (at the ROTC advisor’s urging) because their gpa’s were spiraling downward. I guess that won’t be happening anymore.</p>

<p>S1 was never involved in any sort of military type activity (JROTC,etc).<br>
I’m sure it might help some applicants to have that but not having it didn’t hurt S1.</p>

<p>Another thing they like to see is involvement in sports.</p>

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<p>Iron Maiden, it wasn’t my son, it was the son of a friend, but nevertheless, that’s good to know about the policy having changed! That’s the great thing about a forum like this. We can cross-pollinate with the info we each have. :slight_smile: (And I’ll be sure to tell my friend whose son it is that they are really lucky he got to keep that scholarship!)</p>

<p>Packmom, you are right about sports. It is not only the athletics that they seem to prize, but the leadership opportunities afforded by team sports. My sons were home schooled and were not allowed to participate in public school athletics in our state. S1 did compete on a year-round USA swim team and did pretty well, so I think he was covered in that regard. S2, however, had no sports whatsoever. For him, having Civil Air Patrol likely “saved” him in that regard. It gave him leadership opportunities and he also did some physically demanding things such as Ground Search and Rescue schools and a summer Air Force pararescue school (equivalent of special forces for AF) for CAP cadets.</p>

<p>I always advise other homeschooled kids who are interested in service academies or ROTC to get into CAP as it is a “known quantity” to those making scholarship decisions. For public schooled kids, I can see that it would not be as necessary.</p>

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<p>Below is a link to a document that gives a great overview of the 2010 NROTC program:</p>

<p>[NROTC</a> Guide 2010](<a href=“http://www.slideshare.net/robwong4/nrotc-guide-2010]NROTC”>http://www.slideshare.net/robwong4/nrotc-guide-2010)</p>

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<p>timely,</p>

<p>My S2 has been a avid participant in Civil Air Patrol (CAP) since HS freshman year. He is on track to get the Billy Mitchell (sp?) award (second LT) by next Feb, and a 1st LT rank by June next year in time to list it as achievement before his application for ROTC scholarship application. Do you believe your son’s achievement helped a lot in the ROTC application process?</p>

<p>He also participated in the mountain search and rescue training exercise and was invited for full certification training next Jan/Feb, which is a pretty intense time commitment (8 weekends: we live about 2.5 hours away and I am willing to drive him back and forth). After this training in the spring, he will be able to join the summer session as a leader/instructor. Do you believe that’s also worth the effort?</p>

<p>He is not big on group sports, but does track pretty avidly. Granted, given that it’s an individual competition, not a group sports, so the leadership gain is not obtained but I hope the leadership thing is demonstrated through his work in CAP and Mountain Search and Rescue activities.</p>

<p>He has solid grades (A’s except in math, which is his achiles heel). His SAT will be a weak spot: currently aiming for 2000.</p>

13

<p>What about parents who GOT ROTC scholarships? NVM…Looks like things have changed a lot since 1977.</p>

<p>But all in all, a life changing and fortunate experience for me.</p>

14

<p>Well, I think I’ll join in if it isn’t too late.</p>

<p>For those of you who haven’t followed goaliegirl’s story, she is an (4-year starting) ice hockey goalie (as well as 4-year varsity field hockey and 2-year JV/2-year varsity lax) who has been at a NE boarding school for the past 3 years. </p>

<p>Last spring, she decided in addition to playing varsity ice hockey at college, she wants a career in the military after school. Even though we have no voluntary history in the armed services (both of her grandparents served in Korea), it really didn’t surprise me when she brought up the subject of AROTC. She’s always been a kid who when channel surfing will stop on a good military themed movie. Nothing we specifically nurtured, mind you, but not an interest we discouraged either. So, I have every reason to be confident that she is in it for the interest. She has a lot to learn compared to many of the military family types who are make up a large part of the ROTC population, but she is one who finds a way to succeed at new challenges. </p>

<p>Unlike hyonjlee’s son, goaliegirl hasn’t decided on a unit. She hasn’t even met with the coaches and toured a couple of schools on her list, because they are geographically dispersed. So she decided to interview locally this summer. While it doesn’t give her an advantage of a specific unit wanting her (although the Lt. Colonel who interviewed her extended a hearty invite if she changes her mind), none of her units are highly competitive (they don’t overfill).</p>

<p>She should finish her college visits at the end of October. One of the coaches who we’ve visited would like to see her play which won’t happen until at least November. </p>

<p>She hasn’t done her PFT yet and has intentionally delayed it so she won’t have to make that first choice until she has had a chance to visit all of the schools on her list. </p>

<p>I think we’ve learned something about the boarding process from letters we get from Cadet Command indicating a deadline (the letter we just received dated 9/23 indicated we had 15 days) and the missing item (PFT) or risk not recieving a scholarship. I believe this is a cutoff for receiveing materials for an October board. We received a letter way back in August similarly formatted, which seems to correspond to the boarding currently underway.</p>

<p>Goaliegirl will be doing her PFT soon. Whether she makes the next “deadline” is relatively unimportant as the decision deadline of 30 days after the scholarship is awarded doesn’t necessarily sync up well with the hockey recruiting timetable. </p>

<p>That is where she is. Personally, as much as wishing your life away is a bad thing, I am looking forward to the day when she knows she has found a school where she wants to be and where she fits in well and hopefully a ROTC scholarship is in place where she can then relax and enjoy the last half of the best year of her youth.</p>

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<p>Best of luck to Goaliegirl. Sounds like she’s pretty busy:)
The sooner you can get everything submitted, the better.
S1 got his scholarship letter and college acceptance letter in late Oct. (5 yrs. ago,wow). After that, senior year was great. He had so much fun that year with all the pressure off.</p>

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<p>so, goaliedad,</p>

<p>do you know when the first selection board meeting of the new admission season met or will meet? Was it sept or will it be october?</p>

<p>After you finish all the online application stuff, what happens? Do they contact the candidate to schedule tests and such? What tests? Medical? Physical? When and where?</p>

<p>Thanks for sharing your data.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Hyeonjlee, oh yes! Absolutely. S2 got his Billy Mitchell award, too. I know he also got 1st Lt., but I don’t remember if he went further than that or not. He had some good leadership experience in his squadron and at some of the outside activities. You will have to decide whether the time commitment is worth it for the search and rescue training coming up, but it would certainly be a plus to have the certification and more importantly to serve as a leader/instructor. More is better, but then again you need to weigh the positives and negatives for your family.</p>

<p>Is your son going to apply to Army ROTC? The weakness in math will hurt him with the Navy and Air Force. Also, even if he gets one of those scholarships, he would have to pursue a technical major in one of the latter. You wouldn’t want him to get the scholarship and then lose it because of poor grades! The AF does offer a small percentage of its scholarships to students with non-technical majors. S1 got one of those, thankfully.</p>

<p>Army ROTC does have some disadvantages, though. For example, this morning S2 had to run 7 miles carrying a 30 lb. pack on his back. :eek: Well…he didn’t have to, really. He signed up to do Ranger Challenge this year. They do PT separately, and it’s very intense. Then they compete against other schools’ ROTC cadets.</p>

<p>Do you have any military members in your family? It’s an advantage if you do. One PMS told me that when a kid has a dad in the military, the PMS knows that the kid probably has a realistic idea of what military service involves and will be more likely to stick with it.</p>

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<p>Timely,</p>

<p>thanks for the input. Yes, S2 will be going for the Army ROTC. His first choice was to be a Marine officer, but after learning all about the technical degree, etc, he changed his mind. Though he could pursue a non-technical degree and still get a scholarship, the odds are definitely working against him, and even if he gets it, further requirements while in ROTC for tech related courses and such would put him in a disadvantaged position.</p>

<p>As for the military background, my husband was an Air Force pilot in another country (actually fought in a war: mostly rescue missions), and my father was an Army general in yet another country (again, combat duty galore). Does this help? Though S2 does have close relatives with military experience, they did not do it in USA. I wonder if this still helps him.</p>

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<p>I think that would help alot hyeonjlee. There is a big emphasis now on cross-cultural understanding in the military. So there’s that and the fact that he would undoubtedly have parental support for ROTC and would have a general idea about military life.</p>

<p>On the cross-cultural thing, I say that because last summer S1 was sent by the AF on a 2 week trip to India with a group of cadets for cross-cultural understanding and then this year I was very surprised that S2 was going to be allowed by ROTC to study abroad for a semester. Apparently they have decided that it’s not a good idea to prevent the cadets from doing that!</p>

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<p>Thanks, Packmom. She is quite busy this term between her field hockey, college visits and finishing applications, and recruiting help for her senior project (all seniors are required to do this at her school) where she will be running a learn-to-skate for kids in the local community on Sundays during the Winter. </p>

<p>hyeonjlee,</p>

<p>From what I’ve been told (all of this unofficial), Cadet Command sets cut-off dates for receiving materials to be considered by a review board approximately 3 weeks before the board officially meets to finalize scholarship offers. During this 3 weeks they update the total applicant score for returning (from previous boards, if any) applicants with update information (new test scores, etc.) and score any newly completed applications. They then re-order all of the new and returning applications. I believe at this time, they also check with the preferred units (based upon the applicants list) for the top X number of applicants (from the just resorted application list) to see if the unit wants the applicant in question (likely to be admitted and accept if a unit is close to capacity - many units don’t fill up). At the actual board meeting, the offers to those X number of applicants from the top of the list are finalized. The offers are then mailed out.</p>

<p>This would be consistent with the stories I’ve heard about Unit officers contacting scholarship recipients before they actually receive the letter in the mail.</p>

<p>With goaliegirl’s application, the initial online form was submitted in mid-Jul. We received a “you need to submit X, Y, and Z” letter with a 30 day deadline during the 2nd week of August IIRC, which would be about 7 weeks ago in keeping with giving them 3 weeks to process application submissions (for a board this week) completed within that 30 day deadline we were given. </p>

<p>So my guess is that the first board met (or is still meeting) this week. </p>

<p>As I mentioned earlier, we just received a 2nd similar letter (this time with only the 1 needed item - the PFT) dated in such a way to give 3 weeks processing time for a board in the last week of October. If history holds up, they will have boards at the end of the month through at least March, perhaps taking December off or moving it to the first of January.</p>

<p>As to your question regarding things triggered by the online application, from what I can piece together from our experience, the self-reported data on the application (grades, ECs, test scores, personal statement, etc.) will generate an approval to get an interview with a PMS (to be arranged by the applicant at a school of his/her choice). That is about it. The DoDMERB physical used to be triggered by the online application being completed, but (and this I got officially from Cadet Command) this year the process has changed to only authorize the exams after a scholarship has been offered. This is a big change and can negatively affect applicants who have a complicated medical history requiring extra exams and waivers. For those getting scholarship offers in March or April, getting everything medically cleared before you have to commit a chunk of change (to a school you might not otherwise be able to afford) in May to hold a slot at a school will be very difficult.</p>

<p>(my thinking here) I think this change was because the Army was spending too much money on applicants who were not finishing the process (i.e. getting the PMS interview, getting the test scores and transcriptsturned in, etc.). </p>

<p>As to the where for the physical, I’ll keep you posted when goaliegirl gets the paperwork. Considering she is at school 1000 miles from home, there may be some logistical issues for us getting it done.</p>