<p>Thank you hyeonjlee for that very good insight into the PMS evaluation of candidates.</p>
<p>It is an interesting dance that the candidates and battallions go through to match everyone up. I imagine just like the college admissions process, there is more of these decisions at schools with more qualified applicants. On the other end of the spectrum, I’m sure that there are units out there that do not fill their quota until late in the spring. At these units, I would guess that if an applicant for whom this is a safety who gets a scholarship offer in the early winter, there would be no harm in the unit saying yes. If that applicant accepts, they’ve got a winner who really likes their safety. If the applicant selects another school instead, they get that slot back for the next round - no harm no foul.</p>
<p>I think where the biggest problem with the safety school situation occurs is when someone uses ROTC as a safety for a SA nomination. Given the “bubble wrap” scenario discussed in the SA threads, these ROTC applicants hold onto these slot until the last minute, leaving very competitive units with late openings and few desireable candidates left (as they have already made deposits elsewhere and moved on).</p>
<p><a href=“3”>quote</a> For whatever reason, they feel that the candidate is not a right fit for them. For instance, if the candidate interviewed with them and s/he really came across poorly, that would be a reason good enough for rejection.
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Have you ever interviewed someone that was clearly a wrong candidate and had your company “override” your recommendation and hire them anyway because they looked good on paper?</p>
<p>My point was that if a candidate did poorly during the unit interview, it is unlikely that they would be offered a scholarship let alone be referred back to the same unit that was not impressed with them the first time.</p>
Given how well qualified SA candidates are, I would imagine that most will apply to ROTC units at “Tier 1” schools and those SMCs such as Virginia Tech and Texas A&M.</p>
<p>As I mentioned back in post #118, two of Son’s friends have SA appointments in hand. But they would prefer to get ROTC scholarships to Duke (Navy) and Penn State (AF). They both are on pins and needles awaiting ED and ROTC decisions.</p>
<p>With regards to the “good fit” vs. “better fit” (I’d like to think that they don’t pass the trash at PMS interviews), I’ll throw out something from our experience communicating (email) with a few ROO’s. </p>
<p>We’ve found that some units in goaliegirl’s list are primarily filled with varsity athletes while one doesn’t have many at all (although they do mention that they have a large degree of participation in intramural sports). I would imagine that the units with large number of varsity athletes tend to select them more often than non-varsity athletes, seeing a unit comeraderie advantage of selecting similar candidate profiles. </p>
<p>Of course, I could be wrong in this regard with a small sample size and the one unit reporting fewer varsity athletes having a D1 school being the host school, while the schools dominated by varsity athletes being D3 schools where athletic participation is easier to work in with ROTC.</p>
<p>Overall, I do think there is a difference in unit composition from a student population perspective and when a unit has a choice of candidates whose profiles align with their current population, they will tend to select what they are familiar with and who will most likely bond with their peers.</p>
<p>Taking it back to the hiring analogy, there are employers who like to hire ex-military whose corporate culture is dominated by that ethic. Back when Ross Perot ran Electronic Data Systems (since bought and spun off by GM and recently acquired by HP), they openly stated their preference for ex-military. Not all companies are like EDS and not all units are pro-varsity-athlete.</p>
<p>I am a bit puzzled by this “I don’t believe you” tone. We are all just sharing information. We are not trying a court case here: proving who has better information and who is wrong.</p>
<p>I am reporting what I heard, and I am doing this as a favor to others since I benefited so much when other parents selflessly shared their experience with me and enlightened me a great deal. </p>
<p>If you don’t believe what others are reporting, you are free to make that assessment. You can choose to ignore it, or if you have your own, fact based information that is contrary to what’s reported, then you can share it so that others are not misled by information that is not accurate. </p>
<p>But, “I don’t believe you based on my gut feeling” type of argument is wasteful, and has a discouraging effect on others who volunteer to share whatever they are learning. After all, I don’t have to share anything I learned by painstakingly conducting research that took many phone calls and countless rounds of email exchanges with people who are in a position to know. I certainly don’t have to answer questions by other posters and spend time typing long posts to share the results of my research. So, unless you have a reason to believe that some posters are deliberately misleading others, please let’s keep our discussion based on fact based exchange.</p>
<p>At the risk of sharing a bit too much information about goaliegirl’s situation, I thought I’d share a tidbit about email exchange going on with the contact from the school currently listed as #2 on her list. He is asking questions about why they are not #1 on the list, so goaliegirl is having to explain that while the goaltending situation at the #1 school guarantees a new goalie will start (per the coach’s words), the #1 school has not committed to come see her play while the #2 school 1000 miles away (where we are emailing the ROTC contact) coach has committed to sending a trusted friend (a D1 coach) to evaluate her early in the season. So she is seeing a much higer likelyhood of her having an offer from #2 school (where the incoming may start year 1 but defitely will be starting year 2 - very complicated situation). She also made it clear that she wasn’t going to wait around for other offers from school #1.</p>
<p>Her situation would be a lot easier if she were a skater. If you are good you get ice time. But with goalies, to borrow a saying from dog sledding, if you aren’t the lead dog, the view is the same. </p>
<p>In the end, goaliegirl would be happy attending any of the schools on her list. She is quite adaptable and well preparaed for the college experience after 4 years of boarding school. She is just fighting an uphill recruiting battle as the schools on her list (the only ones offering on-or-very-near-campus ROTC and D3 hockey are not very close to her where her boarding school plays its games. She is fighting for the best hockey experience possible which is a combination of opportunity to start, quality of team (reasonably close in this case) and a pleasant and supportive educational experience. How to explain it honestly without hurting anyone’s feelings or sabotaging yourself is a different thing.</p>
<p>Hopefully, this disclosure of the facts and her honest analysis of the situation (better odds of acceptance) will convince #2 school to keep her on their list. This is getting very stressful for us.</p>
<p>So when it comes to not wanting to waste slots, these guys do take it seriously.</p>
I don’t think many SA candidates apply to military senior colleges - from the kids I know it’s an either or. While both TAMU and Va Tech are fine schools I would not call them “tier 1”. Furthermore, they are both state schools that limit out of state enrollment.</p>
<p>justamom, I think that poster was saying they thought many well qualified SA applicants, if also applying for ROTC, would chose tier 1 schools and/or military colleges. At least that’s what I took it to mean. I don’t think they were implying that the military colleges were tier 1 schools.</p>
<p>My bad - you are probably right. Top schools - some yes, some won’t though if money is an issue. Many apply to their state school as a back up. I haven’t seen many kids apply to both SMC’s and SA’s - usually it’s an either/or decision.</p>
<p>The other thing you all need to keep in mind about Army ROTC scholarships is that this process is all new. Until last year the PMS’s actually made the offers and the board just determined a candidate was qualified.</p>
<p>OH! One thing I forgot to mention…when we met with the ROO at one of Son’s schools last week he said that the ROTC program is $3M in the hole. :eek: I asked if CC would be reducing the number of scholarships as a result and he gave a spin answer. To be polite, I didn’t probe with a follow-up. (We did just show up without an appointment, afterall.)</p>
<p>While $3M may sound like a lot of money (it does in my wallet ), doing some rough math, at an average of $15K per scholarship (average out privates with instate tuition) that is only about 200 scholarships out of 4 or 5,000. It would be a significant percentage, but if they have frozen campus scholarships, that will give Cadet Command the ability to level things out quickly.</p>
<p>Another thought related to this and my previous comments about schools being selective about who they allow Cadet Command to offer scholarships to - without campus scholarships to give out, I’m sure ROO’s are a bit nervous about getting good recruits and they don’t want to end up with a small entering class, so they want to make good on all their candidates. As much as it is stressful on the candidates, this rumored reduction in scholarships affects the battallions as well.</p>
<p>We are all trying to learn here how best to strategize to increase the odds. hyeonjlee reported what s/he was told directly by a PMS. If you believe what what s/he heard is wrong, can you back it up with what you learned from reliable sources like PMS, other parents, cadets themselves etc? I am genuinely interested in getting right kind of information. If I am getting wrong information, I would like to be able to correct it in my head. The fact that you are disputing the other poster’s reports based on reliable sources with your “gut feeling” is not very helpful.</p>
<p>What are your sources of information? What research have you conducted? </p>
<p>So far, this thread has been very information/fact based, and I like it very much for that reason: no endless argument based on “personal” opinions. This is not about sharing parenting philosophy, etc. This thread, I hope, remains a source of information based on research people conducted and personal experience that is grounded on actual occurrence and observation. </p>
<p>I would hate to see people who have done a lot of leg work tirelessly and were generous enough to share that hard won information “retire” from this thread, getting frustrated with needless arguments based on “personal gut feelings” by others who did not make all the efforts to collect useful information and data themselves. I am in a position to benefit from their generosity, and I would rather not see them discouraged and frustrated. I have seem hyeonjlee’s other posts, and they are all based on a lot of diligent research and information gathering s/he has done. I hope s/he does not quit this thread, since we are all benefiting from that hard work. </p>
<p>I have seen some other threads where people with a wealth of experience and knowledge more or less dropped out of the thread when people started to argue points ad nauseum not based on facts to counter the original observations but based on their gut feelings and personal opinions. It’s a shame.</p>
<p>What is the definition of a Tier one school? In the 2010 edition of USN&WR, Texas A&M- College Station was ranked #61 out of 128 in the National Universities category. Many ROTC students will study engineering, and TAMU’s Engineering school was ranked #17 out of 64 for schools whose highest degree is a doctorate. I would think this would qualify TAMU as Tier one school.</p>
I may get pounded for saying this but here goes -
I don’t think anyone needs to or even should “strategize to increase the odds”. The Army is looking for a specific type of student - that of a scholar/leader/athlete. They recognize that the overwhelming majority of students will be stronger in some areas than others - they want a good mix. They don’t want a “cookie-cutter” candidate. If your child is a good student (doesn’t need to be in the top 10%, a B average is fine), a leader in their school, church or community through active participation in clubs, scouts, church groups or athletics and a athlete in a competitive sport AND they pick a college that is a good academic fit for them AND they get medically qualified - has a 100% or near 100% chance of being awarded a Army ROTC scholarship. It’s that easy.
That is unless the Army decides they don’t need 2 LT’s 5 years down the road. Nothing you can do about that.</p>
), doing some rough math, at an average of $15K per scholarship (average out privates with instate tuition) that is only about 200 scholarships out of 4 or 5,000. It would be a significant percentage, but if they have frozen campus scholarships, that will give Cadet Command the ability to level things out quickly.</p>