<p>Karen Colleges is right- HIPAA releases can be withdrawn, and it is questionable whether a blanket HIPAA release is valid, since the signer has no idea what future information they are authorizing to release. It couldn't hurt to have one signed, though! In a true emergency, though, HIPAA/FERPA releases are not necessary- although some medical providers and/or college administrators do not understand that. As a psychologist working in college mental health, I (almost) always try to get the student's permission to involve their parents in an emergency, and every college administrator I know will try to do the same thing. It is much easier for administrators if parents are involved! Unfortunately, in cases of mental illness, sometimes students do not know what is in their best interest- and unless they are in danger or obviously out of control, they still hold the cards. If parents have information about their student's condition or behavior that college authorities may not know, it will be helpful for them to share that. Of course, every situation is different- and you know your son or daughter better than anyone else. If you can avoid a control struggle with your child you will be in a better position to help them- but I know that is not always possible. My best thoughts are with you who are grappling with this.</p>
<p>I think it is highly unlikely that if one explains the reasons that it is important for the HIPAA to be signed in a non-confrontational way our kids will not go behind our backs to rip it up. They have more interesting things to do in school other than going into the health clinic, demanding their HIPAA form and revoking it. A child has to really be rebelling for them to intellectualize (or lack there of) a HIPAA release as being a statement of parental control versus parental concern when they are sick. It's all in the level of adult conversation between parent and child as to the importance of the document.</p>
<p>Dana's Dad</p>
<p>BreathEasy:</p>
<p>The release has on it a section that indicates the duration of the release and the scope of the release eg release of psych. info, HIV info, chart info. It authorizes the person or persons who the physician is allowed to talk to. It explains the procedure for revoking the authorization. A properly structured HIPAA release that protects the provider and outlines the scope of the release is legally binding and valid. If a parent has any questions about the college's standard form medical/psych HIPAA they should take it to their attorney for review. </p>
<p>Dana's Dad</p>
<p>Sorry to be so windy about this topic but I think the issue in this day and age of doctors concerned about litigation it is an important tool that protects medical providers and protects the rights of medical consumers.</p>
<p>My daughter's college sent out a waiver that I thought covered everything. It apparently only lets me know her final grades & her account balances. It does not allow the college to discuss her ongoing academic progress. That is another form. When I asked why the college did not send out these forms with the orientation material...or even let families know that they exist...they said that it was not their policy. I suspect that they just don't want to deal with the paperwork. EVERYONE WHO READS THIS THREAD--PLEASE FIND THESE FORMS AND GET THEM SIGNED!</p>
<p>Other posters have shared the heavy burden that is placed on friends at school. I am concerned about the welfare of my daughter's friends. I did not see any evidence that there is an effort on the college's part to lift the responsibility off their shoulders. Instead, the dean seemed happy that my daughter had a "support group." I do not think getting someone out of bed & to class, reminding them to do their homework, nagging them to bathe & to eat, worrying about their self-destructive behaviors, and continually trying to "be there" for them is being a "support group." I am worried that if something happens to my daughter that these girls will never forgive themselves. Other parents might want to ask their S or D about erratic behavior of other students to see if their S or D is taking on too much responsibility for their age & experience. (BTW...I intend to send them a short email with the phone number of the local NAMI family advocate, a link to the NAMI website, my phone number, and advise them to call their parents if they feel overwhelmed.)</p>
<p>I do not understand the attitude of my daughter's college. I asked them to have her see a medical doctor as a condition of remaining at school and retaining her scholarship. I think that they are all kind, caring people. However, they do not see my daughter's illness as a medical issue--she needs a doctor as badly as if she were in a diabetic in an insulin coma. They see it as a psychological matter that she will choose to deal with when she's ready. But her mind is not working right and she can no longer choose. I think this is a broader social issue that our society has not dealt with. How many of us can say that we believed mental illness was a medical condition until we experienced it first hand? </p>
<p>I also explained that my daughter can become suicidal suddenly. Her break at the end of her first episode happened within a matter of hours. She was doing volunteer work in the morning and in the ER by 6 PM. Only the head of security seemed to understand this...perhaps because he used to be a police officer. Also, he is a parent. College administrators who are not parents just do not get it. </p>
<p>To all those advocating legal counsel...we are pursuing that. We have to step back from actively trying to help our daughter, however. She is so defiant, it will not help. Knowing that she is in danger...well, other parents can imagine what that is like for my family...and some of you have lived through it/are living through it and know what it is like.</p>
<p>I am finding all the responses very helpful. The sharing of experiences, the suggestions, the website & book references. Also, thanks to everyone who has PM'd me. I am sorry if some of the details of my story are spread over two theads. I am stressed and tired.</p>
<p>I continue to welcome stories from other families. Mental health issues at college just aren't on most of our radars during the college admissions process. I did call the counseling center at my daughter's college last summer to see what services they offered, but that was only after she'd decided to attend school there. I could not have imagined at the time where my family would be today. It is a bad dream from which I'd like to wake up.</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
<p>Regarding kids withdrawing signed forms. At this point, my daughter would not remember that she signed the forms, and would probably be unable to figure out where to go to withdraw them. Her capabilities have been severely diminished by her illness. She is living in the moment.</p>
<p>Bob, my heart goes out to you. I wish I had words of wisdom. I just wanted you to know I'm thinking of your family. Take good care.</p>
<p>I wonder what the school would think if you sent them a link to this discussion. Maybe it would enable them to see the complexity and seriousness of the issue. It's hard to believe that after some of the horror stories that have happened at other schools, including Virginia Tech, that schools wouldn't be reacting to documented complaints by erring on the side of caution. Perhaps you should mention that to them.</p>
<p>At this point, over a period of weeks, we have talked on the phone, in person, and documented everything in writing for the college. We have a difference in opinion about what constitutes critical mental illness. I do not think that a person must be incoherent and out of control to be a danger to themselves or others. The college apparently does.</p>
<p>I think it's best left to a lawyer to figure out what to communicate next. We are trying to help our daughter and also considering what action we might take in the future should anything harm come to her.</p>
<p>Bob, I don't know anything about your daughter. I do know, however , that mentally ill students are afforded as much right to pursue their education as the "mentally healthy."<br>
When exceptions arise, it's typically because the student is either showing behavior that suggests imminent and serious danger to self or others or is creating a significant disruption to the university community. In the first instance, appropriate emergency services should be called. In the second instance, the judicial system can provide some leverage in many cases. A situations such as you describe -- where neither of the above conditions is observable by the university, can be very difficult to manage. It may be that the college/university is both caring and concerned. Perhaps your daughter has just not yet "crossed the line" in a way that (legally) permits the college/university to act. As others have indicated, the mental health law of your state is relevant here.
it's a heart-rending position for a parent to be in.</p>
<p>I will say one thing here: I would bet that colleges see more mentally ill teenagers than most of us do. As hard as it may be to accept, the administrators at the college (a) probably have a very good sense of the difference between "a psychological problem" and "critical mental illness", and (b) probably have a pretty good sense of what is the natural history and range of outcomes of conditions like your daughter's. For a parent, this is a tragedy, a teetering on the edge of the abyss. For the college, this may be the 11th most pressing psychiatric situation they're facing this semester, something that's a 3 or 4 on a scale of 10. More importantly, they may know from experience that kids like this do eventually resolve things themselves.</p>
<p>I don't know about "resolving things themselves", but I have seen many that are no better in the long run because of a forced intervention.</p>
<p>I thought I'd posted this. Maybe it got eaten. I think colleges are really invested in avoiding law suits. Then there is a lot of academic misunderstanding. I wouldn't give college administrations too much credit.</p>
<p>I had an openly psychotic student who threatened to exterminate the human race and signed his papers Napoleon. Wrote the same thing for each paper, that he was an exterminating angel. After Colin Ferguson gunned down twenty people in cold blood on the LI railroad because he couldn't wait to get to Adelphi and kill his teachers and the administration (he graduated from our two year school) I was afraid to give him an F. Believe me, students often go straight for the English teachers. So far, all that's happened was that my car got keyed. A small price to pay.</p>
<p>I went to: department chair, two different deans, school psychologist and president of the union. No one would lift a finger. The other students were terrified and couldn't learn anything.</p>
<p>I actually got accused of being the Ayatollah Khomenei trying to suppress free speech in the classroom. The kid was truly psychotic and threatening everyone's lives. </p>
<p>The only consolation I had was to tell H that if I got killed he should bring the biggest law suit the school had ever seen.</p>
<p>Six months later the Supreme Court said that threatening others lives is not protected speech. I hate a conservative Court, but I did feel it was a bit much asking me to teach and others to take class with someone who is openly psychotic and speaks of violence continually.</p>
<p>He was also a neo-Nazi who thought I should be killed along with all who don't have blond hair and blue eyes.</p>
<p>I finally told him, very sweetly, that his papers were wonderful (he actually was a good writer) but that they were off-topic and would need to be re-written. He never came back to the class. One psychologist suggested it was because I was kind which he wasn't equipt to deal with.</p>
<p>It turned out he was a prisoner on a two hour prison release to attend class.</p>
<p>I have not posted here because I have nothing really useful to say, although my heart goes out to Bob Smith and his D.</p>
<p>But JHS, with due respect, how can you write post #70 knowing what happened at VTech? The signs were all there; and VTech, from the profs all the way to the top failed to act to protect the community from someone who was clearly deranged.</p>
<p>In the case of Bob Smith's D, the college's authorities may be deluding themselves as to the severity of the D's problems because she does not exhibit the same signs of incipient violence. </p>
<p>The only thing I can say, Bob Smith, is that I have an acquaintance whose son manifested signs of bipolar disorder in his freshman year in college. The college was about one hour away. It's been tough because the student had a hard time accepting the diagnosis and the reality that he would need to be on medication for the rest of his life. </p>
<p>How far is your D from home? Can one of you spend time to be with her and slowly get her to agree to see doctors? She may not want to disrupt her studies by going home; and as long as she continued to do well, the school will support her in her desire to stay. You might be able to persuade her that her best chances of continuing to do well lie in her willingness to take the necessary medication now and head off more serious problems.<br>
When I had surgery, my doctors warned me against trying to be stoic. They said it was best to take painkillers when the pain was still slight rather than wait until it became intolerable because then I would have to take higher doses, and they would not be as effective. Perhaps your D knows this, but it bears repeating. And such repetition takes time and effort, and needs to be done face to face.</p>
<p>Thoughts and prayers are with you. Reading this has really been helpful on what questions to ask, what discussions to have.</p>
<p>marite:</p>
<p>You're right. I didn't think much about Virginia Tech, although my understanding is that the parents were not pushing for intervention there. I also assumed -- maybe with too much optimism -- that post-VT (and post all the publicity around the suicides at MIT, Harvard, Stanford) cautious, butt-protecting college administrators would be more willing to be aggressive in dealing with mentally ill students.</p>
<p>I also know that, notwithstanding the acts of violence against self or others that make headlines, relatively few mental illnesses come to that. Many more people muddle through. Also, as Shrinkrap points out, aggressive intervention does not guarantee success. A tragic suicide a few years ago that still affects my daughter and her friends happened AFTER the parents went and brought their child home from college.</p>
<p>But this is too intellectual. My heart and hopes are with the OP and his family. I am happy that they have gotten the most important piece of good advice here, which is to find an experienced local lawyer and start working to resolve things nonconfrontationally, if possible. Like Mao's political power, negotiating leverage grows out of the barrel of a gun . . . or, in this case, a credible, achievable legal strategy.</p>
<p>As much as people hate lawyers, in this situation, I think legal counsel can be effective both to counsel Bob, but also on a more practical level. Bob's attorney talking to the college's attorney can often negotiate what the college can and cannot do. If they can agree, and the college's counsel tells the health service, dean, whomever, "Yes, you can do this", they're more likekly to do it.</p>
<p>That's a really interesting point Chedva and something I'm going to remember for other situations as well.</p>
<p>Agreed, mythmom. Chedva's point is well taken. Sometimes people are overly cautious in a desire to protect privacy rights. If the school's attorney agrees with the family's attorney, their comfort level can be addressed and a resolution explored. This is such a difficult situation. If a person becomes paranoid as part of a delusional system (I am speaking in generalities, not about the OP's daughter) they are often resistent to assistance, and see the people trying to help them as part of their perceived conspiracy. Given that the OP's daughter has a history of psychosis, hopefully theis impass can be resolved. Good luck.</p>
<p>Chedva:</p>
<p>Unfortunately for you you don't know the reality of people hating lawyers. People(whoever they may be) may purport to hate lawyers but they sure as hell love us when they are rocked in the bosom of our expertise. I am sure JHS's clients love him and what he does for them. The thousands of people who I have helped over thirty four years sure love(respect) me. I know that was not the substance of your post but lawyer bashing is one of my pet peeves. Try us you'll love us.</p>
<p>Dana's Dad</p>
<p>Hey, danalynne (dana's dad) pssssst. <whispering> Chedva IS a lawyer. I think Chedva knows.</whispering></p>
<p>(Heck. I think half of us are lawyers. LOL.)</p>