<p>Kansas State University recently offered my D a university merit scholarship that's worth about $7,000/year (she is a non-resident, but would pay 150% of resident tuition, which is cheap, cheap, cheap). K-State also threw in another $2,000 in scholarships from the College of Agriculture for her freshman year (that don't appear to have a renewable component). We haven't heard from K-State yet on need-based aid, although I would be surprised if D were offered anything more than work study (which would be fine) and loans (which we don't want). The upshot is that the cost of attending K-State for D's freshman year with these scholarships will be about $5,000 LESS than it would cost D to attend our state's flagship public (UConn), which D doesn't much care for. K-State is very attractive to D because she wants to major in animal science (plans to go to vet school) and K-State's program is among the best nationally. D also loved the school when we visited last spring. My concern is whether the 3.5 minimum GPA required to keep the merit scholarship is realistic. That seems like a very high bar to me, particularly compared with the conditions attached to other merit offers that D received from other schools (although all offered substantially less money). Now I realize that this is K-State and not Harvard, so D should be able to handle the academic rigor without trouble (her high school GPA is 3.9 and she scored a 31 on the ACT on her first try with no preparation). We are fortunate enough to be able to handle the "list price" of K-State without financial assistance, but it sure would be nice to have that $7,000 assistance for all four years. Thoughts anyone?</p>
<p>I'm a senior in high school, and I've been offered a merit scholarship by one of my state's public universities. Its GPA requirement is a minimum of 3.4.</p>
<p>3.5 is pretty manageable and forgiving. Let's assume that your daughter takes four classes per semester. Two Bs and two As would result in a 3.5 GPA.</p>
<p>I would imagine that most, if not all, merit scholarships from public universities have GPA requirements around 3.5.</p>
<p>fabrizio...I am the parent of a college freshman and I disagree. A 3.5 is manageable in high school but may not be as manageable in college.
OP...my son's merit money requires a 3.0. His honors program requires a 3.4. Most of the students he knows were able to maintain both first semester but it did require some effort. Depending on the major, some had to work harder than others.
As a parent what I would want to know is what the grace period is. In other words, for my son's merit if they fall below 3.0 there is a one semester probationary type period where the money is not withdrawn.
Check into the exact stipulations about this.<br>
I don't want to scare you..the 3.5 is probably doable but if she were to lose the merit money I would want to know that you still feel it is the right school for her and that you can pay the extra tuition.<br>
I think of the merit money as a bonus and a probability but not a given....
I hope this helps.</p>
<p>ebeeeee,</p>
<p>Depends on the high school and the college.</p>
<p>I don't know much about KSU. Specifically, I don't know whether their grading policies are tight or loose.</p>
<p>My high school has a fairly loose grading procedure. I think everyone in the Top 5% has a 4.0 unweighted GPA.</p>
<p>I have been borderline A-B prior to the final on three occasions, but I've managed to do well on the final exams to earn As in all the classes I've taken.</p>
<p>Attitude is important. I knew that if I slacked, I wouldn't get an A. I studied hard for the final, and I was rewarded. The worst thing a student can do is exert minimal effort. For example, say a student calculates that a 52 on the final would result in an A for the class. He slacks off and ends up getting a 50 on the final. He gets a B. If he only needed a 52 to get an A, clearly he had done well before. The wrong attitude cost him.</p>
<p>Like I said, if four classes are taken, two Bs and two As result in a 3.5. It is not as if the scholarship requires a 4.0.</p>
<p>gbesq: I feel your pain. My son is in the same situation with a nice merit from a public, but it requires a 3.3 -- and he is going to do engineering, which is tough. </p>
<p>I wrote and asked them how many kids get dropped from the scholarship due to low GPA, and they were unable to tell me. When I asked the head of financial aid at a live meeting, she responded that it was hardly any. She gave the usual, "if he's good enough to get it, he's good enough to keep it." Like you, if we had to pay full price there we could (that is some consolation), but it is a factor none the less.</p>
<p>So, you could ask them for data.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your replies. As for the "grace period," I did check with the financial aid office and was told that the cumulative gpa is only checked at the end of the spring semester of each academic year. So the merit award for the freshman year is basically a done deal. If the cumulative gpa drops below 3.5 at the end of any spring semester, the merit aid ceases beginning with the next fall semester until the student gets the cumulative gpa back up to 3.5 (which hopefully would be by the end of that fall semester, so the merit aid would be reinstated for the following spring semester).</p>
<p>What kind of gpa does it take to get into vet school? Last I heard, it was higher than for med school, so if a 3.5 can't be maintained there will have to be other plans made anyway.</p>
<p>That's about right, dt123. Vet school is murder to get into. Grades and test scores need to be as good or better than for med school, there are more prerequisite science courses required for vet school than med school (most vet schools require microbiology, biochemistry and genetics, among others), and there are WAY fewer vet schools -- only 28 in the U.S.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Like I said, if four classes are taken, two Bs and two As result in a 3.5. It is not as if the scholarship requires a 4.0.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree with ebeee, that one should not assume that going into college doing a pre-med/ engineering or hard science major should assume that it will be a cake walk to get a 3.5 because they had a 4.0 in high school. Most first year science courses are most likely curved at a B (very few A's are given) and they are particularly weed out courses (because every other student is a premed / science major) in addition they are 4 credit classes where most other classes are 3 credits .</p>
<p>Using this analogy presented by Fabrizio, if you take 4 classes and get 2 A's and 2 B's and one of those B's is in a 4 credit science course, you will not walk away with a 3.5 gpa.</p>
<p>3*4 = 12 (B in the science class)
3.4 =12 (A in a 3 credit class)
3.3 = 9 (B in a 3 credit class)
3.4 = 12 (A in a 3 credit class)</p>
<p>total quality points 45 total credits attempted 13 GPA = 3.461 (this would lose the scholarship for the OP)</p>
<p>College science courses, do in no way compare to high school courses (even AP courses) at any school, as there are problem set, pre-lab work, 4 to 6 hours or lab work, and post lab work along with large recitation classes. If a student can pull a 3.5 (which basically means that they would have to pull a A- because a B+ is a 3.3). There are no extra credit opportunities no points for home work or class participation, and with large classes with over 100 students, there is just basically a mid term and a final exam where what ever you get, that is your grade.</p>
<p>sybbie, thanks for saying so eloquently what I was trying to say. Your last two sentences are particularly important. There is no extra credit for homework, class participation, etc. Lots of classes where there is a midterm and a final and that is the grade. This is not high school. A lot of students, even those from highly competitive high schools, are surprised by college grading.<br>
That is not to say that the OP's child cannot pull off a 3.5, I just wanted to point out that she should be realistic and be prepared in case she doesn't.</p>
<p>I forgot to mention that my "I have been borderline..." statement referred to the university classes that I've taken.</p>
<p>Just to clarify.</p>
<p>I thank sybbie719 for clarifying that 2 As and 2 Bs resulting in a 3.5 is true only if all four classes have the same credit hours.</p>
<p>
[quote]
College science courses, do in no way compare to high school courses (even AP courses) at any school, as there are problem set, pre-lab work, 4 to 6 hours or lab work, and post lab work along with large recitation classes. If a student can pull a 3.5 (which basically means that they would have to pull a A- because a B+ is a 3.3). There are no extra credit opportunities no points for home work or class participation, and with large classes with over 100 students, there is just basically a mid term and a final exam where what ever you get, that is your grade.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I've taken calculus-based Physics I and II at my local university. (This may not apply to KSU; I simply don't know enough about that institution.)</p>
<p>Both of my professors assigned online homework. My PI professor gave out fewer problems, but they were harder. My PII professor chose more problems, but they were easier. No professor in the physics department does pre-labs. Our labs were one hour a week, and we never did post-lab work. Physics isn't a required class, and neither PI nor PII had more than twenty students at a time.</p>
<p>As far as tests went, there were four midterms and one final in both classes.</p>
<p>The institution I attend is a fairly large state university. It's tougher than a community college, but it's not as tough as, say, Emory.</p>
<p>My PI professor is a full professor who has been teaching for about fifteen years. My PII professor is an assistant professor who has been teaching for about three years.</p>
<p>I agree with ebeeee and sybbie</p>
<p>My son entered with a 4.0 and is struggling to hang on to his merit based scholarships. He knows that without them he won't be returning next year. It is just not an option for us. To be honest, I hadn't thought it through enough prior to his attending. Like the op I thought that a 4.0 in highschool should be an indicator that he can pull off a 3.5 in college.</p>
<p>Fab,</p>
<p>keep in mind that most students entering in on a track such as Op's D will not probably not take physics freshman year but will start out taking bio and chem. (by the time a pre-med student takes physics, they are in pretty much a self selected group and the pre-med weeding has probably already occured in bio I & II, Chem I & II and organic chem I & II). </p>
<p>In addition, your statement does not take into consideration that there are various science courses (science classes for science majors, science courses for those on the pre-professional track and science course for those who are simply trying to fill a distribution or degree requirement). So would a student who is a phsyics major or engineering major be required to take the same physics class as someone who is just trying to fill a degree requirement and is not looking to go any further (I know that they are vastly different where my D attends school).</p>
<p>even at school in question, there are different sections of the same course required for students in different pre-professional programs (there are different physics courses required for physics majors at this same school).</p>
<p>You are also correct that physics is probably the most "math based" of the sciences so a student who is strong in math (particularly calc) will not really struggle with physics. Unfortunately those skills so not transfer so smothly to the other sciences.</p>
<p>When I entered college, the honors advising department actually calculated a projected GPA! With a 3.98 in HS, they projected a 3.54 at the flagship state U. I recall being vaguely insulted at the time. ;) Now, I wish I had actually made that GPA...</p>
<p>Check with the advisors in your S/D's intended major to see if they have estimates of what an estimated average GPA might look like, given HS grades and test scores (or department-wide, or for kids getting merit $$). The general admissions office might not have that level of data, but departments might. You never know what data/resources they might have!</p>
<p>DS got recruitment mail from KState a few weeks ago. First time I have ever seen a college recruit specfically for math majors! :)</p>
<p>Students in the pre-med program at my university are required to take the calculus-based physics class. This is the class that all science, math, and engineering majors are required to take.</p>
<p>It appears that students in the pre-med program at KSU are not required to take c-based physics.</p>
<p>The only difference between the two versions of the class is the amount of math. Students in the trig-based class don't have to prove equations (which often requires calculus). They won't use instantaneous equations (which always requires calculus).</p>
<p>The labs don't discriminate; it doesn't matter which version of the class the student takes.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that achieving a 4.0 in college is easy. It's not. I'm saying, however, that a 3.5 (which isn't a 4.0) is manageable.</p>
<p>to follow on sybbie's point. </p>
<p>The vast majority of premeds do not make it thru the four-year gauntlet to apply to med school, primarily bcos of grades that are too low -- need a ~3.5 in the sciences to be competitive. Unlike private schools, which may curve on a B/B-, many publics still curve on a C/C+ (dunno about K State). Thus, the majority of grades in Frosh Chem at say, the public UCs, are Cs.</p>