<p>Okay I have really mixed opinions on this. (Or maybe it's the program specifically, I'm not too sure on it at the moment)</p>
<p>What turns out "better" doctors? The highly selective 7 year Combined Programs in which you get to skip the MCATs and all that fun stuff? Or the regular 4 years of undergrad premed, MCATs, pray to various gods of religions that you get into med school, and 4 years med?</p>
<p>My college advisor said the Sophie Davis program (for New York City CUNYs) turns out "lousy doctors" and that the people who get into them are people who really shouldn't be doctors. However my mom insists that it's definately an honor to be accepted to such a specialized and selective program. So I'm faced with two extremes, naturally the best thing to do is to get the majority opinion, right? </p>
<p>Ahh.. if anyone could answer also how important it is to even be a "good" or "lousy" doctor? I mean.. a doctor's a doctor and the paycheck's still the same. I don't see how varied it could be in either case.</p>
<p>I agree with impact angel, you just need to be persistent. Success depends largely on hard work. One thing I would like to add is, if you goto a 7yr program, you can be a more lax and less stressed because you don't have to worry about the MCATS. So, in a sense you could probably "party" more than a regular premed student going through the regular path. </p>
<p>The choice is up to you and whether you want to become a doctor faster or explore a little more. Furthermore, after you get in the 7yr program, most schools allow you to take MCATS and transfer/apply to other med schools after your undergrad yrs.</p>
<p>Yeah.. I figured as much, well except that I thought that the 7 year program would be in a sense more stressful in that there are 7 years of "medical education" (med ed...) instead of the usual 8. </p>
<p>I just wanted to make sure that the 7 year programs are as... "legit" as they claim to be. (idk.. it kinda seems like an idiotic thing.. but I couldn't ignore what my advisor told me) Well then.. I figure whatever happens, happens. Leave it up to what I get accepted into at the end of the day... well end of senior year.</p>
<p>I can't believe I just read "And at the end of the day, a lousy doctor is still a doctor." Are you kidding? At the end of the day, a lousy doctor is, well, a LOUSY doctor! If you think it's unimportant to be a good doctor, please don't go into medicine. We have enough lousy doctors in the field already, and they're giving all doctors a bad rap. </p>
<p>"a doctor's a doctor and the paycheck's still the same" It seems like you're going into medicine for the money. Don't. There are a lot more professions out there who pay well and you don't need to deal with as much schooling. I'm going into medicine (the combined-degree Northwestern HPME) because I love it, I want to help people, and I want to be a GOOD doctor. </p>
<p>There is no stress difference between 7 year programs and the usual 8 in terms of the actual medical education - because everybody gets the required 4 years of med school. As long as you use your undergrad years (which may vary from 2 to 4 in a combined degree program) to satisfy your med school requirements, everybody starts on basically the same page when they get to med school.</p>
<p>Bottom line - please go into medicine for the right reasons. Please, please, please strive to be a good doctor - for the sake of your future coworkers and your future patients.</p>
<p>My advice to Karl wasn't to become a lousy doctor. I was merely trying to express that a doctor from Harvard is the same as a doctor from Sophie Davis. They are both licensed to practice medicine and they should have both received similar training during the medical school years. A doctor is a doctor is a doctor.</p>
<p>As for the $$$ argument, I would agree that if money is the only motivating factor to become a doctor, then you probably won't be happy at the end of the day. (Doctors make less and less now and money is of scarce comfort when you're working 80 hour weeks during residency)</p>
<p>However, one can still argue that financial security is a very important motivating factor towards becoming a doctor. Everyone always says that other professions can earn you more money in less time. To which I would reply, "Care to give an example?"</p>
<p>That's a good one. And it has a much higher earning potential too than anything medicine has to offer.</p>
<p>But it is also hit and miss. Not everyone makes it big, not everyone has the proper skills set to do it (the constant ability to be aggressive, pushy, and still seem friendly), and it takes almost as much time to become an investment banker as it does to become a doctor. (4 years college, 3+ years working experience, 2 years for MBA, etc...)</p>
<p>Yea but those working experience year pay about 20 grand more then residency years. And you reach them quicker. A general worker who is an IB makes about 150 for a mediocre type. The agressive ones can be making millions quick. The medium ones could be looking at upwards of 300 grand a year. And thats with an extra 2 years of school. You cant make that much in medicine with an extra two years. It takes 7 years of residency. Plus a few years of working, using neuro as an example.</p>
<p>There's much risk, chance, and anxiety involved in the 8-year route.</p>
<p>If you're set on becoming a doc, a shorter route might be better.
Income varies too much, overall...
As a doc, your own accomplishments/skills will usually be more important than your medical school diploma.</p>
<p>FYI, there are two ways of getting into Sophie Davis. One is by application, like other schools; the other is to go through a "bridge program" that prepares HS kids for college. There are good and lousy kids at every school.</p>
<p>investment bankers come and go, there is no specialized skill, no job security..if the market is hurting, the investment bankers r hurting. However, there will never be a shortage of the sick, and there will never be a replacement for a surgeon who can replace a person's heart and save their life. </p>
<p>As for the original question...im going into pre-med and ive researches the 7 yr programs as well. I found that yes, it may relieve stress because you dont have to worry about applying to med schools...however you still need to keep your grades above a certain point and work just as hard, if not harder then the regular med student. </p>
<p>I dont think there is any truth to the statement that one program produces better doctors and the other lousy doctors...you can get a lousy doctor coming out of harvard and an amazing doctor from a caribbean med school. Depends on the caliber of the person in question</p>
<p>If you're worried about a 7 year program in terms of not having enough time to explore your undergraduate experience, but you still want the "security" of a combined program, there are 8 year combined programs out there, such as Rice-Baylor and Brown PLME. That's something else to consider.</p>
<p>"My college advisor said the Sophie Davis program (for New York City CUNYs) turns out "lousy doctors" and that the people who get into them are people who really shouldn't be doctors. However my mom insists that it's definitely an honor to be accepted to such a specialized and selective program. So I'm faced with two extremes, naturally the best thing to do is to get the majority opinion, right? "</p>
<p>Karl- the Sophie davis program is a 7 year program- and is meant for students who actually know that they want to be come doctors - after the five years in sophie davis for BS - they go to a really good med school:
Albany Medical College
Dartmouth Medical School
New York Medical College
New York University School of Medicine
The State University of New York (SUNY) Health Science Center at Brooklyn
SUNY at Stony Brook School of Medicine
Unless all these med school turns out "lousy" doctors- ur advisor is wrong</p>
<p>No medical school turns out lousy doctors. This is why there are the USMLE exams. If you cant pass step one you dont move onto years 3 and 4 at some schools, and you cant graduate. Any medical school in the U.S. is good. Some are better then others, but they all are good.</p>
<p>if it's not the med school that turns out lousy doctors...then I guess it's the doctors themselves who are just lousy people...what a shame. :-/</p>
<p>going the 7-year med program route is very relaxed. I'm in a very competitive (to get in that is) 7-year medical program. And I'm having a great time. I thought of the possibility of applying out, but decided that its not worth it. If I applied out, I would only want to go to my state school for the sake of tuition. But my state school although an excellent primary care school and one of the best, does not churn out too many surgeons and other specialty doctors. I'm more interested in those fields at this point so I decided to stay with my program. My program is also very tight knit so we get amazing treatment in the medical school. And our students are consistently at the top rank in the class and earn on average twenty points above the medical school's average on the USMLE's. The school itself earns above average marks on the exam. Applying out requires another year of undergrad tuition, more classes that won't really help in medical school, an extra year of my life hah, lots of money to apply, MCATs---thats a huge deal and alot of preparation, recommendations from professors---not so much of a big deal, but still something to do, and tons of applications, travelling, interview, unnecessary stress. This way, I skip MCATs, keep an excellent undergrad gpa, save a year, make amazing friends over 7 years, and as every student from this program so far, be successful. Feel free to ask any questions.</p>
<p>Ok heres my thoughts...i jsut wanna see if i got people on the same page as me or maybe even the same ideas...</p>
<p>why do a combined program?? Most of you guys have excellent grades but you seem to be selling urself short by applying to so so schools just because they have easy BA/MD programs. </p>
<p>Most of these programs still require you to take the MCAT and get a certain score to even stay in the program...same with a required GPA</p>
<p>Granted you wont have to apply to a medical school but if u keep these requirements at school doing the regular 8 year track, you would be able to get into better medical schools.</p>
<p>Also, college is the beast years of your life...why do you want to end a year early so you go to medical school?? Why rush it, what is another year really gonna do for you? You wont have the pleasure of graduating with friends.</p>
<p>Furthermore, why committ yourself to such a program. You guys are in HS, you realize what the drop rate of pre-meds is????...the extent of most of your medicine experience is either parents who are docs or hospital volunteers...pushing wheel cheers. Truth is, you really dont know if you are gonna like it. Keep your options open, so that way if you dont like pre-med you will still be in a school you love for the school not for the combined program. </p>
<p>ya, thats true.. but hey medicine isnt a bad profession, and i feel that if i took the traditional route id change majors ike 50 million times, and this way i have a perspective and a goal of what it is that i want to do with my life... I feel thats the major reason why these programs are so beneficial, i think you're more concentrated and focused on what it is that you want to do with your life and you stick with it..</p>