I agree with @roycroftmom . We are not doing them any favors by telling them they have met educational standards. There is a reason so many students now want to go to selective schools because this is now bleeding over to colleges. I personally take college grades with a grain of salt unless they go to a rigorous program that I know of in my field of expertise.
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I have very mixed feelings. For some kids, a high school diploma allows them a somewhat better than minimum wage job. No kid is taking a spot at MIT because they were socially promoted.
Back in the days when students were held back repeatedly, I had physically mature fifteen-year-old boys in class with eleven-year-olds. That helps nobody. The research is pretty clear that retention doesnât work.
I donât have the answers, but I promise you Bloomberg (whom I do not dislike) doesnât either. Even Gates had to admit that his well-intentioned, well-funded educational reforms were a bust.
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Out of curiosity, what do you think such a diploma then indicates? Having attained age 18? Attendance at least at some classes sometime? Apparently not any level of skill.
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And Iâm guessing these kids are not attending MIT.
I donât disagree with that. The exception I take is the notion that high schools have forfeited accountability as if the cause of this decline is career educators just deciding to give up and hand out stickers and warm fuzzies.
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I agree with you that itâs a complex issue. However, the majority of students arenât self-motivated. Few of them would make any effort if thereâs no expectation.
Are you saying that schools are irrelevant to most students who perform well?
Not really worried about who is attending MIT. Really worried about high schools churning out graduates who are unable and unqualified to hold any kind of job today.
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Then, college testing is not the issue.
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It remains the issue as it seems to be the only widely available standardized national test measuring student performance, and thus indirectly, reflects in part the performance of high schools.
I expect many selective colleges find that useful (and all selective foreign schools to which Americans apply find it necessary to judge American student academic performance)
You have a point, Unfortunately, that isnât what Bloomberg is proposing. His beef isnât with state educational officials. Itâs with colleges for not giving college bound kids a greater incentive to take the test. Make it a state-wide requirement and the âproblemâ is solved.
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Not at all. I am saying it takes a lot more than high expectations from the school. Every time someone wants to address educational shortcomings, they point to what educators can do better, differently, etc. We should always be looking at what we can do better, but if it is ONLY coming from the school, it really wonât change much.
In my experience, which is admittedly limited to me, parents love accountability until it affects their own kids adversely. We like the philosophy of high standards and accountability until the A student struggles to get a C in a class that they need for the college they want to get into. Or until it means their child wonât graduate.
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I agree that standardized tests should not be so heavily relied upon to assess academic readiness. However, our 2023 student, who goes to a competitive high school, and is taking the ACT for several colleges (who still require testing) has really struggled in math. During covid⊠spring freshman year⊠the curriculum was abbreviated. Then the next two years because of online/hybrid learning the rigor did not come back to pre-covid levels. He started this summer meeting with a tutor to address the math âgaps.â Most of the gaps are in geometry and algebra II⊠freshman/sophomore year math. Additionally, during covid the grading was very generous I guess to make up for the lack of instruction. Fortunately, this year the school is back to its original rigor. Unfortunately, it is like a sledgehammer for a lot of kids mine included. It is hard to make-up for 2.5 years of âteaching liteâ in the span of one or two semesters.
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So the standardized test scores are accurately reflecting the lack of math skills acquisition? Isnât that the point? And the grades do not reflect student skill levels?
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I honestly donât know. It is something I struggle with every day. I have these students sitting in front of me who are at the end of the line, and part of me thinks a high school diploma should mean something, and the other part of me doesnât want them unemployable because they donât have that piece of paper. Many of them are great kids, bright in ways school doesnât measure.
What I do know is demanding more accountability from schools is short-sighted. It keeps us from addressing all the other reasons students are not meeting basic standards. If I could do two things, I would have more vocational education opportunities and address the role of technology in school. The move to technology has had the side effect of rampant cheating and students have become programmed to expect quick and easy answers.
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I donât think anyone (including Bloomberg) has said anything differently.
Parents are even more responsible for their kidsâ education. I agree with you that some (perhaps many in your school district) of them arenât taking that responsibility seriously.
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I am sure many are great kids. If schools wanted to give them good citizen awards and suggest or provide vocational training track to them, even better. But providing dishonest feedback in the form of good grades and promotions for all and no real testing measuring actual performance isnât the answer, and sets up students to fail in college.
Of course employers require more than a high school diploma even for basic clerical work, if such a diploma is meaningless now.
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My D22 is tutoring a 15 year old HS student who has experienced similar âgapsâ in his learning. Math is pretty unforgiving in that not learning âthe basicsâ well will always come back to haunt you and generous grading might actually worsen the situation because it postpones the inevitable reckoning.
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Schools donât decide whether there is a vocational track. For most states, itâs diploma or bust.
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Bloombergâs quote was that high schools were forfeiting accountability. That is what I am taking issue with.
But all HS counselors can educate students about non-college options post-graduation. College isnât the right or only path for all students.
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