<p>“and to get into med/law school, it doesn’t matter what undergrad school the person went to. .”</p>
<p>Geez…</p>
<p>How the student does in their professional school matters a whole lot more than undergraduate studies. Take a law student for example…when he goes out and looks for a job, he’s going to be telling people he went to x law school, not x undergrad. Sure, he’ll put where he went for undergrad on a resume, but the law school is more important. That’s why because of the way the job market is for law students right now, it’s not advised people go unless it’s a T14 school, because it’s so hard to get a job with anything not as good.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No…it really doesn’t…if they want to go to med or law school, their GPA and LSAT/MCAT matter (and for med school, also extracurricular activities and the right pre-requisite classes), but it could be State U or Harvard, undergrad doesn’t have a huge impact.</p>
<p>Alabama is definitely a big notch below University of Michigan. Alabama attracts some top students by giving full ride. That’s about it.</p>
<p>Another Illinois parent of an OOS Alabama student. You are 100% correct that the atmosphere at UofI can’t compare to that of U. Mich. so the Illinois situation is very different. You cannot pass up the opportunity to attend U. Mich at the in-state cost plus your small scholarship.
Not everything has to be taken as a personal insult to the state of Alabama in general so let’s not start the quote-war, but opportunity in the midwest esp. Chicago area in all fields seems to trump that of Alabama even by just sheer volume of job and internship postings alone. My UA son is having his most progress obtaining an internship applying in his hometown area, not in Alabama.
…and here we go…</p>
<p>“Just my two cents as the mother of an undecided senior (1520/2220 SAT, IB, 4t.5 GPA) who is choosing between Virginia Tech (in state, small merit scholarship) and Alabama (full tuition scholarship + small additional amount from the business college). I, too, can afford to send him to either, but I hope he chooses Alabama.”</p>
<p>Virginia Tech is not Michigan. I’m sorry, but it just isn’t.</p>
<p>"Virginia Tech is not Michigan. I’m sorry, but it just isn’t. "</p>
<p>still VT is better than Alabama.</p>
<p>“My UA son is having his most progress obtaining an internship applying in his hometown area, not in Alabama.
…and here we go…”</p>
<p>Are you saying that your UA son is having a difficult time finding an internship in the Chicago area?</p>
<p>My son chose UA over U of M (instate) and he is loving it and getting a great education. The difference, though, is that he REALLY doesn’t like U of M…he ultimately would have chose MSU or MITech over U of M. </p>
<p>The schools are very different. The OP loves U of M and it has the program he/she is looking for (plus he wants to stay in state). There is really no reason to look elsewhere unless finances are an issue - especially as it relates to grad school.</p>
<p>… M2ck “The state is business friendly because it’s a low tax state, it’s a right to work state, and it’s a “less red tape” state.”</p>
<p>Economic studies have found right to work to negatively affect wages, so that’s not a good thing for a future employee. Those states with right to work have had negatively effects on average wages, not positive.</p>
<p>no rjkofnovi, exactly the opposite. While the internship search is tough anywhere these days, he is having many more responses and interviews with Chicago and midwest companies. Simply, there are MANY more internships posted in this area.</p>
<p>We have not found his attending UA to be an issue when applying to midwest companies but can’t really say as we have no idea who else they have considered. Realistically, same job, same GPA, degree etc.? again Michigan has to trump UA.</p>
<p>rjkofnovi - I’m wondering, do you have some kind of a personal issue with Alabama? I think most of the posters on this thread are trying to give perspective on the primary issues to consider as well as insight into how they made their own decisions. You seem solely intent on bashing both UA and the entire state of Alabama. Some of what you have said is conjecture, some of it is simply not true, and I don’t think any of it is especially helpful to the OP.</p>
<p>In our situation, our high stat OOS son (2320, 4.8, 35 ACT, etc) visited Bama on a trip that also included Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt and WashU, and of the four schools Bama was the clear favorite. In fact, Bama was his clear favorite of all of the schools we visited, including Penn, Princeton, Columbia, Duke and Lehigh. At Bama, he spent an hour and a half meeting privately with the Dean of the Honors College, discussing everything under the sun - how many Deans at other schools take the time to do that with prospective students? None of the other schools we visited came anywhere close to providing the personalized attention we received at Bama. S loved the campus, the people, the dorms, the engineering facilities (prospective CS major), really everything. Our discussions with current parents and students have reassured us that the personal attention and student-centered attitude continues once they are on campus, which is pretty rare at an institution of that size as far as I can tell.</p>
<p>We have plenty of money put away for school, and S knew that we would support any college decision he made. He was the one who said “why on earth would we pay more for another school when Bama has everything that I want?” Smart kid. 
Full disclaimer, I went to Duke undergrad and Penn law, and I had always assumed (hoped?) my kids would also go to elite institutions. The college search process has really opened my eyes to the different kind of analysis that must be made in this day and age, now that the cost of attending so many of these schools has gotten so out of control.</p>
<p>We are confident that by choosing Bama, S has made the best decision for him. Is it the best decision for the OP? Maybe, maybe not. The point is that there are lots of variables to consider, and both choices have pros and cons. Life is rarely as black and white as you are trying to imply.</p>
<p>“Virginia Tech is not Michigan. I’m sorry, but it just isn’t.”</p>
<p>I didn’t say it was – although Tech is certainly among the top schools in certain majors. </p>
<p>But let me try to make my point more simply: once you reach a certain level, the choice of undergraduate school really doesn’t matter as much as what you do personally. </p>
<p>With my son’s stats, he would be competitive at most schools. But he wasn’t interested in going to a school just because he could, regardless of its “stats.” As others have said, if the OP loves UM and his parents are willing to pay the extra, fine. But if he loves both schools equally, then it wouldn’t be very smart to ignore the financial aspect. In other words, compare cost (including the likelihood of graduating in 4 years) and placement stats/average starting salary, and then determine which has the better expected ROI. </p>
<p>And as a graduate of both the “inferior” Virginia Tech and a Top 10 law school, I assure you that no one could care less where I got my undergraduate degree.</p>
<p>Since you are in-state and it sounds like you can afford it, go for Michigan. I am a Michigan grad from many years ago, and just a few weeks ago in a job interview the interviewer was thumbing through my resume and said, “Oh, you went to Michigan, that is a great school!” And he clearly meant “great academic school”, not “great at football” (both of your choices can claim that). I live in another “Big Ten” (I mean, original Big 10 midwestern state, that can actually mean anything now!) that is a few states away from Michigan. I feel like Michigan’s academic reputation is respected nationwide, where Alabama’s academic reputation isn’t as strong. People know the university, know its athletic programs, but it does not stand out academically near the top of public flagships. FYI, my D2 is a national merit finalist this year, and certainly could have applied to Alabama and taken the free tuition, but chose not to do so.</p>
<p>One more thing I will say is that I have an MBA from another state’s flagship that is ranked near Alabama’s. The difference between Michigan and my other college experience was primarily in the quality of students. At Michigan I was surrounded by uber-bright people – some of the most astonishingly smart people I have ever known (lots of them). I miss that about Ann Arbor… at my other school for the MBA, my professors were excellent. But the quality of class discussion, study groups, and just general level of intellectual quality was markedly lower than at Michigan.</p>
<p>It would be helpful if you could post more specifics on your major and post-undergraduate plans, though.</p>
<p>I do not know what the OP is wanting to major in, but I can give some perspective as a current senior in chemical engineering at UA. First, many of my colleagues are getting into great graduate schools. People have gotten into the following graduate cheme schools: MIT, UT-Austin, University of Colorado Boulder, Berkley, Georgia Tech, etc. Many students are getting into med schools all over the country: UAB, Harvard, Vanderbilt, USA, Duke, etc. One reason these people are getting into such great schools is the added possibilities that come along with not having to pay tuition and oftentimes housing costs. </p>
<p>I think the OP should seriously consider the possibility of saving $55K. With the $55k, the student can study abroad, live in better housing, not have to go into debt if they would need loans to cover UMich, save the money for their first house or for graduate school, etc. I do think that saving $55K on tuition would ultimately put the OP further ahead in life a few years removed from undergrad. I’m not trying to say that UMich could not lead to a better job in many instances because of its reputation, but I really don’t think it will happen all that often or be that significant. </p>
<p>Many of my friends are getting internships and great job prospects majoring in all sorts of majors: accounting, MIS, mechanical engineering, finance, healthcare management, etc. I also don’t know why people are dissing the state of Alabama so badly. Michigan doesn’t actually seem like a hub for great jobs right now. I would actually wager that more engineering and manufacturing jobs are in the south east…Who wouldn’t want to co op at Mercedes and only have to drive 20 minutes from their dorms? That sounds a lot more attractive to me than working for a failing GM in freezing weather ;-)… </p>
<p>But ultimately, I hope the OP just choses what they think is best. They are in an envious position with two great choices. I have had a wonderful experience at UA that I truly don’t think I would have gotten anywhere else. Just hope everyone can enjoy their college experience as well as I have.</p>
<p>My D is a current freshman at UA. She passed up admittance to fine institutions including WashU, Carnegie Mellon and NYU. She didn’t even apply to our own flagship, Texas, though she would have been granted auto admittance under state law. She had no interest. Why would she choose UA over these other more highly ranked schools? Fit. It wasn’t for the Presidential scholarship, though that was certainly what put UA on our radar. She even has a deep love for a certain Big 12 school that her father and brother attended but didn’t apply there. In her many visits over the years, she just couldn’t see herself there. </p>
<p>Fit. It’s that subjective quality that you just can’t measure. </p>
<p>Has the question been answered at to whether the OP has visited UA? Still, if it is the OP’s heart’s desire to attend Michigan and he/she has the financial ability to do so, it seems like a no-brainer.</p>
<p>“Still, if it is the OP’s heart’s desire to attend Michigan and he/she has the financial ability to do so, it seems like a no-brainer.”</p>
<p>That was my point from the very start…</p>
<ol>
<li>Based strictly on factual data, not taking into consideration fit, Univ. of Michigan comes out ahead in the long run. </li>
</ol>
<p>According to latest 2010-2011 data provided by National Center for Educational Statistics, which collects and compiles detailed information about institutions of higher learning, University of Michigan outspent per enrolled full time equivalent (FTE) student, and garnered better outcomes than University of Alabama.</p>
<p>====================Alabama, ==Michigan
Instruction expenses ($), ====10197, = 19719
Research Expense ($),====== 1943, ==17885
Academic Support ($), === ===2984,== 6796
Student Service ($), ======= 1643, == 1991
Institutional Support ($), ==== 2661, === 3690</p>
<p>Michigan’s 4 year graduation rate, selected for Aug. 2011, is almost twice that of Alabama</p>
<p>Alabama 38
Michigan 73</p>
<p>Definition of variables & a treasure trove of data can be obtained from IPEDs data center below</p>
<p>Ref: [IPEDS</a> Data Center](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/datacenter/Data.aspx]IPEDS”>http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/datacenter/Data.aspx)</p>
<p>Data, available in an easier compiled format for 2010 (3 years old), is also available from collegeresults. It makes the task comparing various colleges easier. However, selection based on one’s fit is very personal. </p>
<p>[College</a> Results Online](<a href=“http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?institutionid=170976,100751]College”>http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?institutionid=170976,100751)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Comparing the alumni median pay after 15 years, and their return on investment, Michigan shows better outcome.</p>
<pre><code>Median Pay
</code></pre>
<p>Alabama $ 65,000
Michigan $75,000</p></li>
</ol>
<p>One can argue that Michigan alumni work in major metropolitan cities around the country that have higher cost of living, and, therefore, are earning higher salary, whereas Alabama alumni work mostly within the state of Alabama, and, therefore earn lower salaries. Data is not readily available to either support or oppose this argument.</p>
<p>Since OP is reporting that he received grants at Alabama, but not at Michigan, then comparing 15 year “Net Return on investment (ROI) for Graduates only” (Alabama with grants) and “Net ROI for Graduates Only" (Michigan without grants), and comparing the graphs, Michigan shows better ROI.</p>
<p>15 year Net Return on Investment</p>
<p>Alabama $185,000 (approx, eye estimation from graph)
Michigan $390,000 (approx, eye estimation from graph)</p>
<p>Ref: [Economics</a> 101: Maximizing Your College Investment - BusinessWeek](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?)</p>
<p>[Type in the name of the university in the box (Alabama or Michigan), select from pull down menu “15 year net ROI (with grants) for Graduates only” for the Y axis (left), and select “Alumni median pay” for the X axis (bottom) ]</p>
<p>As others have posted, many intangibles are taken into consideration while making college decision. For OP, whose major or graduate school plans we don’t know, and given that OP is in-state, perhaps Michigan looks like the better choice. For other students, the attraction of warmer climate, smaller intimate setting of honors college (if admitted), saving money for graduate school etc. might outweigh their decision in favor of Alabama.</p>
<p>Xiggi, is that you using your other screenname? If I remember correctly, you have a Trinity screenname. </p>
<p>Graduation rates really aren’t that meaningful to dedicated students who have funding, which this student has. </p>
<p>Rarely have I heard of a scholarship student at Bama not graduating within 4 years. the one case I know about was because the student changed major significantly, and the parents agreed to pay for the extra semester. </p>
<p>Because Alabama is located in a good-sized metropolitan area, it does have some students who are “locals”. They work part-time and go to school. They often don’t graduate within 4 years because of how they pay for school. But those kids’ situation has nothing to do with the OP. </p>
<p>Again, until we know the OP’s major/career interests, much of this data, etc, is irrelevant. If the OP is going to go to med school, then who cares what the avg income of this school or that school is? He’d be a high paying doctor.</p>
<p>Mom2ckds:</p>
<p>Sorry, this is not Xiggy. Wish I were that smart!!!</p>
<p>Let me start by saying that the University of Michigan is a great school. In fact my niece, a California resident, matriculates there. If UM is a great fit for the original poster and it’s not a financial stretch, then go for it!</p>
<p>My son is a National Merit Scholar who attended an elite college prep academy that routinely sends large numbers of kids to the Ivies, Stanford, Cal, Duke, etc. He was accepted to “prestige” universities and knows the difference between academic rigor and fluff, as well as good teaching and bad, and evaluates these variables on the basis of what he experiences, not rankings.</p>
<p>That said, he was one of those top students who were “bribed” to take a look at Alabama. And no, it was absolutely not on our radar screen. Yes, the massive scholarship lured us to investigate. Thank goodness.</p>
<p>Now, the University of Alabama is certainly not for everyone. No school is. But I will tell you this: my son absolutely loves it there. Here’s why:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>He’s surrounded every day by literally thousands of very smart, motivated students. The ones who fall short have zero impact on his education. He feels appropriately challenged by the rigor of his curriculum. I have a Ph.D. and did my undergrad schooling at Cal Berkeley, and I’m more than satisfied with the quality of education my kid’s getting at Bama. In fact, it’s every bit as good as the undergraduate education I received.</p></li>
<li><p>He’s had teachers at UA that he considers some of the best he’s ever had.</p></li>
<li><p>He’s in the Honors College, where he receives highly personalized attention and where seminars cap out at 15 students per class max.</p></li>
<li><p>He’s almost never taught by a graduate student.</p></li>
<li><p>The campus is drop dead gorgeous.</p></li>
<li><p>The infrastructure is first rate.</p></li>
<li><p>The dorms are the finest we’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen plenty.</p></li>
<li><p>The recreational, extracurricular, and service opportunities are endless. UA is a national leader in service opportunity and delivery.</p></li>
<li><p>The university’s policy with respect to AP credit has allowed him to both double major and have a life.</p></li>
<li><p>The Chancellor, Dr. Robert Witt, is a visionary, and my son loves being part of the wave that will contribute to the realization of the vision.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Is he fearful that he’ll be aced out of opportunities by employers enamored by the school of an applicant? Nope. He knows that will happen with some employers, but he also knows there are plenty of opportunities with desirable employers who are keen on looking past the window dressing, finding winners, and evaluating applicants on the basis of their skill set and intellect. </p>
<p>Is he fearful that by attending Bama he’ll short circuit his chances at a top grad school, law school, or MBA program? Nope. He’ll be applying to those, if he chooses, with an unassailable GPA and competitive standardized test scores, plus a resume filled with accomplishments.</p>
<p>I’ll leave you with this. My son’s prep school has a large, professional college guidance department that sends its counselors all over the country each year to evaluate colleges and universities. Among the publics they visited and evaluated are Berkeley, Texas, UVA, North Carolina, and Michigan. They came away from their visit to Alabama literally blown away by the quality of what they observed, and these are not people who are easily impressed.</p>
<p>Again, I’m not trying to sell anyone on the University of Alabama. Selecting a university is a highly personalized choice and goodness of fit is critical. I just want to give folks a glimpse into what Alabama is currently offering.</p>
<p>By the way, I got my Ph.D. at Michigan State University and spent years being told by my colleagues at the University of Michigan what an inferior school I was attending. I’ll gladly match my career against any of theirs. Just sayin’. :)</p>
<p>Roll Tide, Go Green, Go Blue and good luck to the OP.</p>