Michigan or Washington?

[goldenboy8784]

<p>

@Alexandre

Really? Could that have something to do with the fact that 60% of Michigan undergrads pay $10k in tuition, as opposed to 50% of Cornell and Penn undergrads who pay $40k in tuition?

That’s because Michigan is a state school whose institutional mandate authorizes it to educate a certain percentage of in-state students in exchange for a handsome amount of money provided by the state of Michigan to cover its operations. Sure, the state of Michigan is going through a tough time now and is contributing very little to the U but that doesn’t change the dozens of decades of generous support that the state legislature has provided the university. Its the reason why Michigan is the school it is today.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Penn and Cornell have raised funds to support themselves through thick and thin ever since the initial endowment contribution that allowed these universities to be born. They provide all students the ability to attend regardless of their family’s ability to pay. it just so happens that the applicant pool for these elite private schools is highly skewed to include the wealthiest families in the country so only a certain percentage of accepted students at Penn and Cornell can even qualify for financial aid.</p>

<p>in the hypothetical situation where no in-stater applied to the University of Michigan one year and the applicant pool was 100% out of staters and internationals, nobody’s need would be guaranteed to be met and the vast majority of accepted students wouldn’t be able to attend. On the other hand, if 100% of Penn and Cornell’s accepted students one year all had family incomes below 50K, the entire student body would get a full-ride to these universities in the form of grants and would be able to access a world-class educations. Obviously, the economic realities of our world would ever prevent either of these situations from arising, but it allows us to see the disparity between the generous financial aid policies of the Ivies vis-a-vis state schools like Michigan.</p>

<p>

@Alexandre

Overall, the average Michigan student pays no more, if not less, than the average Cornell or Penn student. I see no reason why Michigan needs to provide additional FA. Why should Cornell and Penn force 50% of their students to pay $40k in tution and not Michigan?

This is due to the demographics of the student body applying and doesn’t take into account the hundreds of students who were unable to attend U of M due to their inability to pay. Obviously, the actual student body Michigan enrolls will be a combination of extremely wealthy or extremely poor OOSers as well as plenty of middle-class in staters but the entire OOS middle class is squeezed out.</p>

<p>

@Alexandre

Not so whatsoever. In fact, Michigan undergrads have greater research opportunities than Cornell undergrads. I should know, I attended both universities.

Attending graduate school in ILR doesn’t make you an authority on the undergraduate experience at Cornell though.</p>

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@Alexandre

Arrogant presumption. I know no such thing. Are you accusing me of lying? I stand by my initial statement. Michigan offers a highly personalized undergraduate experience. Only 6 or 7 universities in the nation can best Michigan on that front, while another dozen or so can match it. </p>

<p>As for your Duke vs Michigan comparison, I shall not drag your good school’s name through the mud just because one lying scumbucket such as yourself chooses to do so.

If you say so, but the use of ad hominems doesn’t strengthen your argument or make you any more of an expert of American universities.</p>

<p>

@Alexandre

To the OP, ignore Goldenboy, he is jealous of Michigan because it is arguably the most well rounded university on the planner. Not many universities can make such a claim without stretching the realms of reality.

Right, but I went to a school that would challenge Michigan in that regard anyway so why would I be jealous? I just want to paint an objective picture of reality for all high school seniors deciding whether to attend Michigan, Northwester, UTexas, UChicago, etc.</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>“On the other hand, Penn and Cornell have raised funds to support themselves through thick and thin ever since the initial endowment contribution that allowed these universities to be born.”</p>

<p>You mean they had to act like beggars and harrass alums to donate money. Michigan had the luxury of state funding and did not have to approach alums nearly as shamelessly or desperately. </p>

<p>“They provide all students the ability to attend regardless of their family’s ability to pay. it just so happens that the applicant pool for these elite private schools is highly skewed to include the wealthiest families in the country so only a certain percentage of accepted students at Penn and Cornell can even qualify for financial aid.”</p>

<p>Really? What a coincidence. It so happens that 50% of the students admitted into Cornell and Penn belong to the top 5% of the US socioeconomic ladder that they can afford the $250,000 price tag without breaking a sweat. I suppose the middle class in the US is populated by morons!</p>

<p>“in the hypothetical situation where no in-stater applied to the University of Michigan one year and the applicant pool was 100% out of staters and internationals, nobody’s need would be guaranteed to be met and the vast majority of accepted students wouldn’t be able to attend. On the other hand, if 100% of Penn and Cornell’s accepted students one year all had family incomes below 50K, the entire student body would get a full-ride to these universities in the form of grants and would be able to access a world-class educations. Obviously, the economic realities of our world would ever prevent either of these situations from arising, but it allows us to see the disparity between the generous financial aid policies of the Ivies vis-a-vis state schools like Michigan.”</p>

<p>Such flawed analysis. Are you really that incompentent? I would not be surprised if Michigan rejected you and Duke accepted you by mistake. That would certainly explain your major inferiority complex where Michigan is concerned and your hatred for the University. If 100% of Michigan students were OOS and 50% payed $40k in tuition, as is the case with Cornell, Penn and most Ivies, then Michigan would easily afford meeting 100% of all demonstrated need for the remaining 50%. It is easy to be generous when 50% of your student body plays a whopping $40k. Michigan is not so fortunate. Over 60% of Michigan students only have to pay $10k in tuition, and of the remaining 40%, many do not pay full tuition, which is still 10% lower than that at private universities. It is precisely because 60% of Michigan students are in-state and pay $10 in tution that Michigan cannot afford to provide the remaining 40% with generous aid. If Michigan had the luxury of schools like Cornell or Penn where 100% of students were obligated to pay $40 in tution, Michigan would find a way to make it affordable for the 50% who are unable to afford full tuition.</p>

<p>“Attending graduate school in ILR doesn’t make you an authority on the undergraduate experience at Cornell though.”</p>

<p>Yes it does. I lived on campus for 2 years, befriended many undergrads, closely observed the inner workings of the university, and really got to know professors at the CoE and school of Engineering. I am still in contact with Professor Ehrenberg, a fellow expert on US universities. I am not going to discuss the specifics, but suffice it to say, I know Cornell as well as I know Michigan.</p>

<p>“Right, but I went to a school that would challenge Michigan in that regard anyway so why would I be jealous?”</p>

<p>You tell me. Although Duke cannot challenge Michigan, it does come close. As such, you have no cause for such insecurity, and yet, your behaviour is certainly indicative of a very jealous person.</p>

<p>“I just want to paint an objective picture of reality for all high school seniors deciding whether to attend Michigan, Northwester, UTexas, UChicago, etc.”</p>

<p>You are not objective, you are biased and hate Michigan.</p>