<p>See, there’s my problem, even with the recentering of the SAT, I may very well have fallen close to that “pretty stupid” category. No wonder I need so much clarification.</p>
<p>Number 1, I got a 29 on my ACT and a 3.6 UMich recalculated HS GPA. Excuse me for not having stats that are off the chart. Are you calling me hopelessly dense?</p>
<p>"Decision of which colelge to attend does affect how well one performs. When a student has his eyes set on a prestigious college, he will work harder than one who has his eyes set on a low level state college. Many students essentially “pick it up a notch” on their learning when they suddenly realize what school they want to go to. "</p>
<p>cdz, a student who got a 3.9 for two years is less impressive than a student who got a 3.9 for 4 years. Long term superior performance means something.</p>
<p>“Also if you went to a smart school, you would also learn that career recruitment is available because of the excellence of the students. If the students weren’t smart and were “stupid” there wouldn’t be such recruitment.”</p>
<p>There are other things that go into recruiters’ decisions other than student body. Like Alexandre said, MBB named UMich one of the six strategic campuses, above some other Ivies. That I like. But do you think UMich’s student body is better than all the other schools like Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Caltech, UPenn? I don’t think so. </p>
<p>"And if you say that your school is smart, then you should have realize that you are bashing your school; you called 75% of your school “stupid”. The students are what makes up of a school. If that isn’t considered bashing, then I don’t know what. "</p>
<p>Just because I go to school with you does not mean I must think you’re smart. I never bashed my HS. why? Because pretty much everyone there is top-notch.</p>
<p>“Your not above ROF. Your essentially the same as him. Bashing your own school makes it worse than bashing another school. I don’t see how having a slightly lower SAT/ACT when compared to HYPSM in the middle 50% is a negative. Nor do I see that 3.7-4.0 is a weakness (Ivy league schools have pretty much the same GPA). Plus UM has more undergrad schools than Ivy Leagues, each school has different standards. Also you should know that UM accepts a good amount of inner city, low income students because UM wants to give them opportunity.”</p>
<p>Yes, at the expense of selectivity. I’m not trying to say UM is a bad school. I think its a GREAT university, I wouldn’t come here if I didn’t think so. I just think that it’s not hard to get into, so future applicants shouldn’t worry so much. And in terms of stats and ECs, ROF doesn’t come near my level. </p>
<p>“besides intel there’s absolutely nothing amazing about his profile (is the intel thing good? not too familiar with hs stuff anymore). i mean, bragging about a 2350? really? and isnt science olympiad kind of a joke competition, or am i thinking about something else?”</p>
<p>I didn’t mean to brag about my achievements, I think I got defensive after several posters got offended about my orignal post and questioned my stats. National gold medalist of Science Olympiad competition is a joke? I think you need to do more research. </p>
<p>“Number1, I got a 29 on my ACT and a 3.6 UMich recalculated HS GPA. Are you calling me hopelessly dense?”</p>
<p>Your stats is within the middle 50% range. Maybe I have high standards, but I don’t consider you smart.</p>
<p>Clarification:</p>
<p>This thread is NOT about:
- Me bragging my achievements
- Michigan students are dumb</p>
<p>This thread is about:
- Michigan is very easy to get into. Most ppl on CC, if applied early in the rolling process, can get in.</p>
<p>i dont feel like digging through posts, but i seem to remember you calling the average michigan student “not too bright” or something like that. that’s why people are so upset.</p>
<p>also, there is a difference between “slightly easier than the ivy leagues” and “very easy” in terms of admissions difficulty. the first is true, the latter far from it.</p>
<p>and not everyone who posts here can get in. most of the chances threads i see are actually pretty borderline cases.</p>
<p>and by science olympiad do you mean you got gold medal at like IChO or IPhO or something like that? because mad respect if yes. if its the program just called “science olympiad” or something like that, no, not all that impressive. regardless, i wasnt saying you’re not bright, just that you’re not bright enough to be as arrogant about the student body as you are. i can guarantee you’ll meet plenty of people with equal or better accomplishments once you get onto campus, assuming you take reasonably difficult courses. and of course your stats are way better than rof’s - he didnt even get into ross preadmit, so id assume there are plenty of people at michigan in a similar boat as you in that regard.</p>
<p>Top 25% of the Michigan student body has grades like yours. That is roughly 1,500 students in each incoming class. If you are looking at numbers, Michigan has a large pool of strongly competitive students that are similar, in terms of grades and sat scores to students at Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth and Brown.</p>
<p>Number 1, not everyone can be valedictorian. Not everyone gets 2350’s on their SAT’s. About 300 or so students get 2400’s each year out of the tens of millions of students applying to college. To students like you, Michigan isn’t hard to get into, but to others it is a very hard school to get into.</p>
<p>Michigan is prestigious and there are many people that would like the opportunity to gain acceptance into a great school like Michigan. The people here are great in my opinion. Everyone I’ve met here knows they will be challenged academically. Just wait until you come to campus. I think your views will change as you get involved in organizations, clubs, or whatever interests you.</p>
<p>I’m in that bottom 75% of students at Michigan and I took offense to your “stupid” comments. My grades and SAT scores are way below average in comparison to most Michigan students. I’m not as smart as everyone., but that doesn’t mean I can’t succeed. When I get here I’m going to work on improving my work ethic. I think I can achieve success at Michigan and I know that there are people willing to help me do that. </p>
<p>Michigan compared to other Ivy and prestigious private universities is easier to get into, but compared to the other 29,000 colleges and universities in the U.S, it is a very hard school to get into.</p>
<p>I wonder what one of the directors here think. He is in charge of a huge chunk of the entire commodities arm’s PNL last year. His SATs was too low to go anywhere so he went to community college. and by “act of god” as he put it, he transferred to Texas A&M. Worked his way from middle office to the desks. He now manages one of the biggest desks in the commodities arm. He is one of the biggest stars. He must be pretty stupid because his high school stats are so low.</p>
<p>LOL, bearcats I like how you think. It’s actually funny, but true at the same time.</p>
<p>Look at Colin Powell. 2.0 HS GPA, mediocre SAT, went to CUNY(City University of New York), later went to the army and became General. Former Secretary of state. He must be pretty stupid to.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>WOW YOU ARE SO CONTRADICTING. FOR THE BILLIONTH TIME, YOU ARE BASHING UMICH AND SAYING THEY ARE DUMB. IF YOU CAN LEARN HOW TO READ YOUR OWN POST YOU WOULD NOTICE. You wrote loud and clear in the FIRST POST and the post.
</p>
<p>
Did you ever considered that GPA for college admissions is never 4 years and a lot of it is 3 years. There are numerous Ivy League schools (which you consider much better than UM) that don’t consider freshman year grades. </p>
<p>
And do you know why they named it a strategic campus? It’s because of the great performance of the graduate. The biggest factor as to why recruiter want to come to UM is because of the students. The students are the reason why they want to come here. They care less about anything else than the students. Why? Because of the great performance of the past graduates. They believe that these students are capable of helping the firms excel. So in the end it’s the students. The other factors combined to not over rule the students at all. </p>
<p>
Hmm interesting. How do you know his stats and ECs? He never posted them, nor has he ever created a chance thread. So maybe I should use your words against you “Never talk about things you don’t know. Just for future reference.”</p>
<p>
Woah woah woah, since when was I mentioning you bashing your high school? Last time I checked, you said you don’t go to high school anymore. Your school is UM. I was saying: If you say that your high school is so good and teaches extremely well, then you should have realized that your ARE BASHING your school (which is UM). And I never said you should think I’m smart so stop putting words into my mouth.</p>
<p>I have to say this. The way you decided to bash your peers and say they are not smart makes me think that you seriously are stupid.</p>
<p>“Top 25% of the Michigan student body has grades like yours.”</p>
<p>Impossible. Only a portion of the top 25% of the class rank top 1% and even a smaller portion valedictorian. And the number of students who win national competitions in addition to high SAT and ranking is extremely small. </p>
<p>"I’m in that bottom 75% of students at Michigan and I took offense to your “stupid” comments. My grades and SAT scores are way below average in comparison to most Michigan students. I’m not as smart as everyone., but that doesn’t mean I can’t succeed. When I get here I’m going to work on improving my work ethic. I think I can achieve success at Michigan and I know that there are people willing to help me do that. " </p>
<p>and </p>
<p>“I wonder what one of the directors here think. He is in charge of a huge chunk of the entire commodities arm’s PNL last year. His SATs was too low to go anywhere so he went to community college. and by “act of god” as he put it, he transferred to Texas A&M. Worked his way from middle office to the desks. He now manages one of the biggest desks in the commodities arm. He is one of the biggest stars. He must be pretty stupid because his high school stats are so low.”</p>
<p>and </p>
<p>“Look at Colin Powell. 2.0 HS GPA, mediocre SAT, went to CUNY(City University of New York), later went to the army and became General. Former Secretary of state. He must be pretty stupid to.”</p>
<ol>
<li><p>C’mon bearcats, graduate of Hotchkiss and DE Shaw intern, you should know anecdotes are not statistics. If you really want to compare, many bankers, elite PE and HF managers, partners (MBB) are millionaires. I’m pretty sure they all did pretty well in HS in order to go to a target and then to their job. For every Colin Powell or your director, there are 100 top HS performers who do well in college and business.</p></li>
<li><p>I may have misconveyed my thoughts. Originally I talked about UMich’s low stats for accepted students as a way to tell ppl that UMich is not selective. I meant these stats indicate that students don’t need a high grade to get into UMich. I didn’t mean these stats tell how the accepted students will perform in college, as the discussion later turned into. So just looking at the profile of the accepted class, I don’t think the students are smart. I’m not talking about how they will perform on campus or in their future. Just the quality of students accepted. </p></li>
<li><p>Bearcats and Entertainer, you’re saying that 2.0s can do well in college. Admission officers try to predict how well applicants will perform in college and in their future. By your logic, 2.0s from Arkansas community HS really have no difference with 4.0s from Hotchkiss and admission officers should pay attention to 2.0s because they are likely to be the next Colin Powell or director at a quant fund. In fact, by your logic, HYP should accept 2.0s over 4.0s because the 4.0s are likely to get cocky in college and do bad, while the 2.0s will work hard and do well. I don’t buy this crap.</p></li>
</ol>
<ol>
<li>I am not interning at DE Shaw. I had an offer at DE Shaw. I took a comparable but more mainstream opportunity that I like more. I dont want to work myself into a niche as a sophomore just yet… Believe me or not, DE Shaw is very nichey </li>
</ol>
<p>For example, DE Shaw vs bulge bracket structured product desk.</p>
<p>both are quantitative opportunities. Both are great companies. The only difference is, say if I want to get a consulting internship next summer (which i dont obviously…I love my work here, and I just got my returning offer today 
I am actually pretty excited right now) </p>
<p>It would be damn hard to spin “watching stats arb all day” to "I want to help other people figuring out the problem. That is what I would have to do from DE Shaw.</p>
<p>From a structured product desk, I could say, "Well, the sales guys come to us with our clients requirements/requests, and we tailor made index/note based on their needs and satisfy both stakeholders: The company’s profit and the client’s satisfaction. See, from that experience, I learned a lot about trying to fit a solution to other people’s problem. After much thoughts through this experience, I feel that consulting would be a good fit for me. Much easier :)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I am just saying, GPA and SATs and even high school accomplishments are not the only parameters that determine a person’s success. It is definitely correlated. But remember, when we talk about correlation, we have to be aware of causation vs correlation.</p></li>
<li><p>“In fact, by your logic, HYP should accept 2.0s over 4.0s because the 4.0s are likely to get cocky in college and do bad, while the 2.0s will work hard and do well. I don’t buy this crap.”
You are putting word in my mouth. I am just saying, dont generalize.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Under Number 1’s calculations. A student from Andover who has a 3.75 must be quit stupid when compared to a student who has a 4.0 from a average public high school. Because from Number 1’s posts, what I can understand the only thing that matters in terms of college admissions that Number 1 considers are: GPA and SAT/ACT.</p>
<p>“Did you ever considered that GPA for college admissions is never 4 years and a lot of it is 3 years. There are numerous Ivy League schools (which you consider much better than UM) that don’t consider freshman year grades.” </p>
<p>I think you mean some of them pay less attention to it. But are freshman grades counted? Absolutely. Stanford, however, does not count freshman grades.</p>
<p>“Hmm interesting. How do you know his stats and ECs? He never posted them, nor has he ever created a chance thread. So maybe I should use your words against you “Never talk about things you don’t know. Just for future reference.””</p>
<p>Cdz, your attempt to let me taste my own medicine fails miserably. In UoM’s Volatile Future, ROF was debating against bearcats about who’s smarter with stats. As I said, you need to do much more research b4. And I’ve already given you this advice, but here it goes again: “Never talk about things you don’t know. Just for future reference.”</p>
<p>“Woah woah woah, since when was I mentioning you bashing your high school? Last time I checked, you said you don’t go to high school anymore. Your school is UM. I was saying: If you say that your high school is so good and teaches extremely well, then you should have realized that your ARE BASHING your school (which is UM). And I never said you should think I’m smart so stop putting words into my mouth.”</p>
<p>Ok, I made a tense error. Excuse me. “I went to a school.” Better?</p>
<p>Someone who makes grammar errors like ambiguity like you Cdz, is not in the position to judge my grammar. </p>
<p>You wrote: "And if you say that your school is smart, then you should have realize that you are bashing your school; you called 75% of your school “stupid”. The students are what makes up of a school. If that isn’t considered bashing, then I don’t know what. " </p>
<p>The first time you wrote “school” you were referring to HS. The second time you referred to “school”, you referred to college, with no antecedents. I don’t think the students accepted to UMich are smart. You said i was bashing the school. So then i told you just because I go to school with you (plural tense) does not mean I have to think you’re smart. You (plural tense) refers to general student body.</p>
<p>If GPA and SAT scores determine intelligence or quality, then there are a lot more dumb asses in this world than I thought, at least according to your logic.</p>
<p>I think you do need high grades to get into Michigan. Thats why average GPA is a 3.8 for LSA, 3.9 for Engineering, and 3.8 for Pre-Admit Ross. Only students that “don’t” need high grades to get into Michigan are athletes, and some disadvantaged minorities…</p>
<p>Michigan wouldn’t be as prestigious and well respected as it is, if it accepted “dumb”, “stupid” or “statistically unqualified” students…</p>
<p>Cdz, I’m going to assume you’re referring to Philips Andover and not Andover HS. I never said its the only criteria. You’re putting words in my mouth. The number of students from AESDCH is so small that their influence on the average GPA is negligible. In fact an indication that I think HS matters is the talk about my HS and Hotchkiss.</p>
<p>lol at Andover HS. It actually exists btw. it is across the street from Andover. I remember seeing it when I visited Andover.</p>
<p>Again Entertainer, please read my post carefully. I specifically said above, that I misconveyed my thoughts. I meant to say that the accepted students quality is not good. The talk about GPA and SAT is to prove that UMich is not selective, I wan’t trying to talk about how these kids will perform in college or in life. Just during the admission process, the stats of the accepted students are not top-notch, so applicants shouldn’t worry that much.</p>
<p>So the average stats of accepted students in each of the colleges I mentioned above(LSA, Ross, Engineering) isn’t top notch?</p>
<p>Define top notch:</p>
<p>Yea the acceptance rates are high: 41%, 54% respectively , but does that mean Michigan isn’t accepting qualified students?</p>
<p>from op:
</p>
<p>this is what people are so offended about, number1. this statement does not mean the same thing as “michigan is relatively less selective than the ivy league,” as you are backtracking toward now.</p>
<p>"this is what people are so offended about, number1. this statement does not mean the same thing as “michigan is relatively less selective than the ivy league,” as you are backtracking toward now. "</p>
<p>I think there is a misunderstanding. Let me clarify, so please read carefully. First I want to redefine “stupid” and “dumb” and “not smart”. I meant, that AT the point of admission to UMich, the accepted students’ stats are low, whether or not that indicates intelligence or college performance is admission officers’ problems. I’m just talking about the stats are low. So forgive me if you think my saying “stupid” means students are morons. I just mean low stats, it was a poor choice of words.</p>
<p>“So the average stats of accepted students in each of the colleges I mentioned above(LSA, Ross, Engineering) isn’t top notch?”</p>
<p>When did I say its not? So let me answer it here. No, I do not think stats for accepted LSA/Engineering students are top notch. I think I’ve been saying that since the original post. Ross, however, I agree.</p>