<p>We are having a hard time making this decision among these three institutions. Indiana would be by far the least expensive, but they have all chipped in nice packages to even the playing field somewhat. The teacher assignments at all three are good. The academic piece (obviously better at Michigan and Oberlin) is not paramount, but also not irrelevant. Any input specific to a violinist would be most welcome.</p>
<p>I believe that your S will find the overall violin playing level highest at Indiana. That does not mean that there aren't individual exceptions, ie some individual players may be better at Oberlin or Michigan than some at Indiana. The overall level may or may not be important as a deciding factor - the level is not "low" at any of the three and differnences shouldn't overly affect chamber music or orchestra experiences. </p>
<p>As you know, there are excellent teacher choices at each place. If you're pleased with the teacher assignments, I'm sure he can't go wrong with any of them at any of the institutions.</p>
<p>You might consider whether the lack of grad students at Oberlin is a plus or minus for him. Possibly weigh the thought of less competition vs. less stimulation from/observation of older players. </p>
<p>Interested Oberlin violin students seem to do a lot of "new" music if he's interested in that. Don't know many other places that encourage that for undergrads.</p>
<p>I have known recent IU students who thought the theory and history course demands were too much. Not necessarily in the number of courses, but in the expectations of the profs - lots of work to get an A or high B sort of thing. These kids thought they should have been practicing instead of studying so much. I have known students who have gone the Artist Diploma route rather than BM at Indiana for this reason. This might not apply to your S - he sound very bright and might find the work easier than the kids I'm thinking of. He might be able to Facebook some current students with questions about workload if he cares about this.</p>
<p>As you've said, weigh in the academic enivronment and opportunities as well. Four years of heavy duty music can be a lot and the opportunity to take something intriguing and challenging outside the School of Music may be important at some point. My own S (2nd year at a stand alone) just shocked me yesterday with a comment of that sort - wished he could have a bit of variety. For him, I chalk it up to spring fever - he always knew he wanted the conservatory route - but it did make me realize they all can feel narrow at times. </p>
<p>Best of luck - I really think you can't go wrong! They all have great programs and teachers.</p>
<p>I don't know anything about Indiana (except that Gingold used to teach there, and Joshua Bell was a student...), but my kid is really enjoying his experience at Oberlin -- particularly the range of performance opportunities, including historical performance and lots of cutting edge contemporary performance, with conductors and coaches who are engaged and engaging. The academics are also top-notch, which was a critical draw for us. He thought he didn't care if he went to school in a university or a liberal arts college and thought he preferred a city, but he has loved the town and campus at Oberlin -- rarely goes to Cleveland; there is always something exciting going on and it is all right there; he is practicing and performing all the time and loves his friends there. It looks, from the size of your kid's scholarship, like Oberlin also really likes him -- that is a good start for any musician beginning at a conservatory. Good luck deciding. You really can't go wrong!</p>
<p>I had another thought that may be too far afield, but it's something we've encountered with our violinist.</p>
<p>You indicated Inidana is the least expensive - if there is a possibility that attending IU would leave some of the college money available for other things, you might want to throw that consideration into the equation.</p>
<p>In our case, S is being encouraged to get a new instrument. He is currently playing a violin that cost significantly more than the 3 year old vehicle I drive. We'd have to upgrade beginning at a $40,000 level - not anything I see happening soon. He honestly does need a better bow - that's another item I'm not sure how I'll manage!</p>
<p>If not instruments, there are always summer programs - not all are tuition-free!- and grad schools. </p>
<p>Anyway, just a thought!</p>
<p>Thanks for all the advice. You're right- musicianmom. The desire (and need) for a new, very expensive violin has worked itself into our discussions about IU and the low cost for us! Not too far afield at all.</p>
<p>Has your S considered combining the performance degree at Indiana with admission to their Honors College, for added academic intensity? Thats the route D was going to take if she had attended Indiana after acceptance there.It might level the academic playing field somewhat if you are concerned.</p>
<p>The instructor is normally paramount; if he'd be happy with the three, it becomes harder.</p>
<p>The other considerations of institution/department size, number of grad students, geography are a matter of preference, but don't neglect at least thinking about them.</p>
<p>Finances are always important, and less outlay now means it might be a bit easier paying for grad school, which is pretty much a given. </p>
<p>Personally, contingent on the studio teacher at IU, if my viola playing son had those options for undergrad, he would leaned heavily to Oberlin. </p>
<p>The instrument issue can be a major one for string players. Just research thouroughly, and seek professional advice. You may not need to pay $40k for an instrument that sounds like you did. There are many current modern makers who produce wonderful instruments for a fraction of that. </p>
<p>He has excellent choices. When it gets down to it, a lot of this is go with the gut.</p>
<p>Names in a hat, flipping coins or throwing darts can be viable methods of deciding at this point provided you and he have done your homework.</p>
<p>Has he spent much time on all 3 campuses other than the audition? My youngest attends Oberlin (not in the con) and loves it, but it is a kind of a quirky place. The academics at Oberlin would win out, I think. </p>
<p>And as far as new instruments go, I agree with Violadad. If you shop around you can get something that sounds quite good for less than 40K.</p>
<p>Oberlin is indeed quite a different kettle of fish than either Ann Arbor or Bloomington. All three are prototypical college towns, but on vastly different scales and in very different ways. I wholeheartedly agree with shennie that Oberlin is a quirky place, which can be either wonderful or off-putting, depending on what your son is looking for.</p>
<p>I didn't intend to open up a discussion of the merits or lack there of of modern vs. old high cost vs. low cost violins! I will explain my original intent, make my one comment and shut up!</p>
<p>First, I commented because the need (or perceived need) for a student to purchase a new instrument while attending college is common - at least at the schools I am familiar with. Teachers frequently ask their students to buy better instruments and bows. Given that we had finally caved to my son's precollege teacher (who is also at a university) demands and purchased an instrument that was at the limits of our means before he started college, I was shocked to have this come up so soon with S's undergraduate teachers. S's instrument is a fine one, but I know other college students playing instruments of similar and greater price and quality at his conservatory and other similar level institutions. Some of the kids (parents) own the instruments - some have them on extended loan from patrons or the schools themselves. Stringfollies clearly knows a lot about this whole violin education venture and I was sure that she wasn't lacking in knowledge of violins and $$$. I thought the specifics of our situation might have particular meaning for her. </p>
<p>Finally, my statement - I have spent many years around violins and sales - old, new, auctions, repairs, commissions, etc, etc. It is never an easy task to purchase or sell an instrument and each person's needs and preferences are unique. You can certainly find quality instruments at a variety of price ranges - but the price ranges exist for a reason!!</p>
<p>Oberlin has some quirky kids, including some who are fairly militant about issues like food and environmentalism, but it is overall pretty mainstream -- though not many "preppy" kids and surely less sports-oriented than at Michigan...I would not at all describe my kid as quirky and he is very comfortable with the environment. (I'm from Berkeley, though, so my sense of quirky may be quirky; but isn't Ann Arbor also supposed to be a liberal quirky town?)</p>
<p>musicianmom, my intent was not to stir up a kettle of fish with my instrument comment nor was it directed at either you or stringfollies. </p>
<p>My comment was made in the spirit of trying to aid the unintiated reader and plant a seed hoping that they investigate potential alternatives. Debate on issue of age or makers was not the purpose.</p>
<p>The levels of expertise and knowledge on this board range from the neophyte having no clue as to the processes involved in selecting an undergrad music program to active professional musicians trying to make an informed choice for their own kid.</p>
<p>
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It is never an easy task to purchase or sell an instrument and each person's needs and preferences are unique. You can certainly find quality instruments at a variety of price ranges - but the price ranges exist for a reason!!
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<p>I agree completely with your statement, but I will also add that not all the reasons are necessarily valid or scruplulous ones.</p>
<p>stringfollies, if my comment offended you, by all means let me know.</p>
<p>[isn't Ann Arbor also supposed to be a liberal quirky town?]
Yes, Ann Arbor is quite liberal, but UMich is also so much bigger than Oberlin that there's probably more variety, including the kids who pack the football stadium for Big Ten Football! (now THAT really seemed quirky to D who had a great time going to a game.... once!)</p>
<p>I'm not sure that any of the violin studios at Michigan can reasonably be compared to the at least one of the studios at each of the other two schools. Vitek at Oberlin and Laredo at Indiana have such world-class students that even a school like Michigan-- which is excellent, don't get me wrong-- just can't compete, not with Paul Kantor gone. (Exception: Michigan has /stellar/ DMA students, but that's a whole different kettle of fish and not really helpful to a freshman.)</p>
<p>Just in terms of violin teachers, it seems to me that Indiana and Oberlin are in a different league. hope that doesn't offend anyone.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the comments. We've just finished a revisit to Michigan. Tomorrow Oberlin where son will meet Mr. Vitek. They're both wonderful schools and he is honored to have such great choices. </p>
<p>About the violins, he is really lucky that he is currently playing a violin on loan. It is a really fine fiddle - not modern, but not that old. But to buy it would be far beyond our means. He might not get to keep it next year and his own fairly good violin simply pales by comparison. We are not particularly educated about violins generally, but are lucky to have a teacher who is unusually knowledgeable. The teacher says that if he loses this loan, he will have to have a new one. We expect it to cost quite a lot - how much will depend not on its age, but on the ability of a particular violin to maximize my son's gifts and what it happens to cost - then we'll try to come up with the money to the best of our ability. Unfortunately, many of those that sound great seem to be very expensive. Isn't this often true in life?</p>
<p>Well--this is about my son's cello and it's probably in a different league than your violin search, but when we were looking for a cello a few years back, he tried instruments up to $20,000. His choice--and still beloved instrument--was the cheapest, $2,500 (Chinese) cello. His teacher, who has a Testore, still thinks it's great. I did wonder with the Eastman application why they asked about his instrument (the only school that did). On paper, it doesn't sound like much. In real life, it sounds great.</p>
<p>I really hope we're able to duplicate your experience, Mom4!!</p>
<p>THe jacobs school of music is unparallelled in general. It's not Julliard, but it's close. Aren't there playwrights written from Indiana that go around the world? </p>
<p>Plus, their theatre is ABSOLUTELY amazing.</p>
<p>Oberlin is a great institution for music too, but the campus at IU brims inspiration.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the input. We've just come back from revisiting U. Mich. and Oberlin - both were wonderful and both teachers were great. The admissions dept. at Oberlin has been particularly kind and helpful. My son came out liking Oberlin best and the UI teacher best. He was torn. But after a lot of nail biting, he has decided to go for the teacher at IU Jacobs next year. I can't believe that we really are, finally, done with this stage of his history!!! I'll wait a couple of days before findiing something else to worry about.</p>
<p>Stringfollies and Son,</p>
<p>Congrats! Don't give in to "buyer's remorse" - I think he'll be pleased, at least violinistically, at IU. Best of luck!</p>
<p>PS. I laughed out loud at your worry comment - the sentiment is all too familiar!</p>