Michigan vs UIUC with study abroad

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>Son was just accepted to UofM, which is in state for us. He had just visited UIUC campus day and loved it. He plans to study computer science, and a major difference is the encouragement/support for study abroad. UIUC heavily promotes study abroad in engineering, meaning tuition is reduced practically by a year, along with stipend/scholarship help. The comp sci programs at UIUC partner schools are also top in the world for my son's country of choice. It is also relatively easy to still graduate in 4 years. </p>

<p>By contrast, he would study Comp Sci in the LSA college at UofM (though may still be able to get the degree through engineering through a dual degree program). Study abroad options are more limited, would be at normal tuition, and may result in an extra year for graduation.</p>

<p>My bias shows in this email, but I am not sure it is worth the extra tuition expense ($40k over 4 years, or maybe $25k if UofM stretches into a 5th year). Does anyone out there have experience with an engineering student studying abroad at one of these institutions? Thoughts?</p>

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<p>I dont see the debate here.</p>

<p>UIUC 40k X 4 = 160k
Michigan 25k X 5 (even if you actually need 5 years) = 125k
Notice this is actual dollar value. The present value difference is even greater since one of the “25k” is 5 years from now instead of 4.</p>

<p>UIUC engineering vs Michigan engineering: A Wash
Michigan overall vs UIUC overall: Michigan significantly</p>

<p>So you get to pay less to go to a better overall school,I dont see the debate. </p>

<p>Michigan has a lot of study abroad program too. There are some where the professors from michigan hold guest classes as overseas universities. If that’s your concern.</p>

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<p>Add in the lost salary for the 5th year and you’re paying more to go to Michigan, which is not a “significantly” better university. They’re two first tier universities ranked in the Top 10 for public universities.</p>

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<p>Actually, even if you add in lost salary and assume that OP does ZERO internships between all summers, michigan’s still cheaper. OP said “may result in a 5th year”. We’ll put that as 50/50. Assuming starting salary for the “5th year” as 60000 which is average for engineering</p>

<p>There will be 2 scenarios (Assumption: Inflation = 3%) :</p>

<p>Scenario 1:
1st to 4th year tuition for Illinois/Michigan = 40000, 25000
5th year tuition and “forgone salary” 25000+60000 = 85000
A persent worth analysis would yield
Illinois 148K
Michigan 166K</p>

<p>Scenario 2:
1st to 4th year tuition for Illinois/Michigan = 40000, 25000
No 5th year
Present worth analysis would yield
Illnois 148K
Michigan 92K</p>

<p>For calculation’s sake the probability of either scenario is 50/50
Expected Present Value for illinois = 148K * .5 + 148K * .5 = 148K
Expected Present Value for Michigan = 166K * .5 + 92K * .5 = 129K</p>

<p>Not to mention the fact that I am positive study abroad wont result in an extra year at Michigan. That’s the first thing they talk about at ANY study abroad info session. They always start off the info sessions with “You wont have to delay graduation blah blah blah” . So the 5th year shouldnt even be there.</p>

<p>Anyhow, Michigan IS significantly better than Illinois.
Michigan is a Top 25 University. Illinois is probably around Top 40 (just go by USNWR for recent years or any rankings for that matter). If you think roughly 15 spots are not significant, you might as well say Cornell and Michigan are around the same, since it’s about 15 spots too.</p>

<p>So according to your logic (~ = roughly equal) :
Michigan ∼ Illinois (Around 15 places difference)
Cornell ~ Michigan (Around 15 places difference)</p>

<p>Therefore Illinois ~ Cornell ???</p>

<p>Michigan is arguably top 3 (Cal, UVA/UMich/UCLA) public university. Illinois is probably around top 10 public.</p>

<p>In terms of resources, Michigan’s endowment was standing at 7.1 BILLION last year (amongst top 8) compared to Illinois’ 2.2 BILLION, that’s more than 3 times more.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I need to point out that the UIUC option is really $40x3=$120 because the year abroad is essentially free (tuition is set at $1,000 per semester, but there is a $1,500 stipend, help with airfare, and the possibility of a $3,000 scholarship). That aside, all the other observations remain, and are definitely helpful to making this decision, especially the comment that study abroad should not increase time to graduation. I think I was pulling that from the dual program website (BSE plus a B.A in German). We will definitely dig into this a little more with the advisors during campus day.</p>

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<p>And the university where he would be studying abroad at doesn’t charge tuition?</p>

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<p>This is getting to be ridiculous. It’s a pathological condition, isn’t it? </p>

<p>My point, which still stands as correct, is that if Michigan forces a 5th year, Michigan is the higher cost option. Your “analysis” shows that, and the assumption of “50/50” is what drives your result. </p>

<p>Also, you’ll learn this in time, but you don’t need to over complicate something so simple. Did adding an interest rate of 3% and calculating the NPV change your analysis? No. It was negligible.</p>

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<p>That very likely depends on the student involved. Usually a study abroad semester allows for less credit hours than a normal semester, which could delay some students. It also could cause students to delay taking prerequisites in a sequence of courses. I doubt the study abroad school has the entire Michigan course catalog available. </p>

<p>The OP is the best person to judge whether or not study abroad will delay graduation.</p>

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<p>This argument doesn’t even make sense. The rankings aren’t based on an equally spaced linear function. </p>

<p>I know you go to Michigan and want to think of it as being the greatest place in the world, it’s just one of many good schools. UIUC and Michigan aren’t that different in overall quality.</p>

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<p>Scorp: UIUC has reciprical arrangements with the Technical Universities in Darmstadt (ranked one of the best in the world for computer science) and Munich (also highly ranked). There is no additional tuition due to this arrangement.</p>

<p>Son received this prompt and informative response from a UofM advisor this evening (partial response): Regarding studying abroad, this is something that can be done but does require more forethought for a CS major than for many other majors in LSA. (Study abroad is pretty tough in CoE as well.) The challenge is that it is difficult to find courses at foreign institutions that match our CS courses, so a student who wants to study abroad would basically take a semester (or a year) away from taking courses that meet the requirements of the major. This can still be okay, if the student has gotten a good jump on the requirements early on.</p>

<p>Contrast that with this website blurb from the Associate Dean of Undergraduate Programs in UIUC’s College of Engineering: The engineering workplace is now more diverse and complex than in previous era. When you graduate from Illinois, you will work in a global economy where businesses operate around the world and around the clock. To prepare you for success in this environment, the College of Engineering offers many different types of international experiences. These opportunities will introduce you to other countries and other cultures, and will teach you how to work with a broad variety of people and organizations. I encourage you to include an international experience to your engineering education. You will certainly make yourself more attractive to potential employers. More importantly, you will learn to see yourself, your country, and your world in a different way. Engineering is a global profession. You owe it to yourself to have a global experience.</p>

<p>And realize that the study abroad year is practicallly free at UIUC. The in-state tuition and reputation of UofM are compelling, but for a student who knows he wants to combine Computer Science and study abroad, it feels a little like you’re swimming against the tide at UofM.</p>

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<p>My friend is studying abroad as a EECS major (EE based). He cant find compatible EECS classes but his advisor strategically planned his study abroad plan. Get in touch with the study abroad office once you get on campus and they will plan your classes for you. Basically, he take all the major requirements at michigan, and did his entire humanities, social science series and chemistry requirement abroad. So he basically flipped his sophomore and junior year around and he’s on track to graduate in 3.5 years, with 8 credits from AP which is worth about half a semester.</p>

<p>The key here is planning. You need to strategically plan your studies if you study abroad, but pretty sure that’s the case everywhere. At every info session, they always stress that the only people who need to repeat are those people who decide they want to study abroad all of a sudden without having previously planned it.</p>

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<p>Thanks Bearcat. That is pretty much what the remainder of the response from the Umich advisor said. We will continue to explore the UofM option; it is certainly not impossible, but you can see the difference in emphasis between the two schools.</p>

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<p>No tuition for studying abroad, even as an out of state student? I don’t care to look into it, but if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I would ask around on the U of I boards to check if you can study abroad for only $1000/semester…are you sure it isn’t that U of I charges their normal tuition plus only $1000 in fees?..that sounds much more likely.</p>

<p>Anyways, there isn’t a major difference between the schools. Both are highly respected, I say that as a Michigan student currently working in Illinois. But I think you are underestimating cost at U of I…if you think your kid might take 5 years to graduate from Michigan with an engineering degree, you can bet that he’ll be able to fit study abroad in. As said, the key is planning.</p>

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<p>Again, from the UIUC website (they award 150 of these scholarships each year): Engineering students at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign are strongly encouraged to gain international awareness and experiences through study abroad. The purpose of this scholarship program is to encourage students to begin planning early and to provide financial incentives to study abroad. Students may study abroad in more than 15 countries. Each scholarship winner will receive:</p>

<pre><code>* $3,500 for each 16-week semester (minimum of one, maximum of two consecutive semesters) that you study abroad; therefore you may receive $3,500 or $7,000 when you study abroad

  • Help with roundtrip airfare to your study abroad destination
    </code></pre>

<p>Even without the scholarship, here are sample fees for a program in Germany:</p>

<p>Non-Refundable Processing Fee $350
Program Fee $1200/semester
UIUC Range IV Tuition & General Fee* $1099-$1365/semester
CISI Health Insurance $115 semester; $273 academic year
Roundtrip Airfare $1000
Room & Board $600/month</p>

<p>International Programs in Engineering will provide a living supplement of $1000 per semester for engineering students in this program. (Recipients of the International Engineering Scholarship are not eligible.) </p>

<p>Am I missing something?</p>

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<p>I thought the study abroad tuition was added on to the UIUC tuition. Hey, I hope you’re right ryegye</p>

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<p>I called the International Programs in Engineering office (IPENG) today to confirm. This may be unique to Engineering and differ by country, but they confirmed that the information I have for this German program, at least, is correct. A good deal for OOS to be sure.</p>

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<p>I am abroad now with some michigan students and they are having trouble taking courses in their field. basically, it seems they aren’t allowed to take courses in their major and are must take more general courses (physics, math, econ). This probably required a lot of advanced planning on their part. </p>

<p>in my opinion, michigan may be more prestigious overall, illinois has a more well known CS department.</p>

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<p>Vivace, are you a UIUC student? In CS? Where are you studying abroad? Is the instruction in English or a foreign language? Thanks for any information you can provide.</p>

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<p>Ryegye, I’m currently a student at U of I myself. I’m not a student in CS or engineering, but I can tell you that the extra tuition that most of these students pay goes very far. There is a distinct difference between the engineering programs and the rest of U of I’s programs. I would put U of M above U of I in all but engineering. Some rankings I just found on google: [Rankings</a> | Engineering at Illinois | University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign](<a href=“http://www.engr.uiuc.edu/about/rankings.php]Rankings”>http://www.engr.uiuc.edu/about/rankings.php)</p>

<p>I noticed you were looking at studying abroad in Germany. Germany is a great choice if you’re looking to save money, since it’s all subsidized by the state. Germans pay only 500 Euros per year for university, and that is a relatively new development. Consequently, you can study abroad in Germany very cheaply! The only thing I feel I should mention, in case you didn’t know, is that most programs (as far as I have seen, anyway) will likely require your classes to be in German. Most programs are serious immersion ones. There are others which don’t, but those tend to be more expensive. Just something else to consider, that’s all.</p>

<p>I would highly recommend U of I, though. The extra money is worth it.</p>

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<p>I would definitely say Michigan. If you don’t end up liking engineering, Michigan has tons of great programs and every big school has tons of study abroad programs. Illinois and Michigan are on the same level when it comes to engineering reputation.</p>

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<p>I was surprised to see this thread resurrected. Son ended up choosing UM, but it was really a tough choice. Despite being offered the international engineering scholarship by UIUC, we calculated it would cost about $45k more over four years, requiring him to take loans. Since he expects to go on to grad school, this became the deciding factor. Had that not been the case, I am pretty sure he would have chosen UIUC because the program was so aligned with his interests (he was also offered a spot in their new Ifoundry program). Hopefully UM’s new international minor indicates a move toward more easily incorporating the study abroad experience into their engineering program.</p>

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<p>There’s been a program quite similar to the international minor for quite some time.</p>

<p>Your son is doing fine by choosing U-M. The schools are both great. I attend U-M, but since January have been co-oping in central Illinois, well within the Champaign sphere of influence. Ann Arbor is much better than Champaign. And even though we are right in Illinois’ backyard, we’ve had two co-ops per semester at work from U-M, just one kid for the summer from U of I. I like to think that shows that Michigan gets some respect, even in the backyard of another great school.</p>