Michigan vs USC

College Search & Selection
1

We live in the SF Bay Area and D has been accepted into liberal arts at both schools. Since we are OOS and she got some merit money at USC, cost will be about the same. She is torn. On the one hand, she expects to come back to CA after college, so wants to experience something different at UM and really liked it when she visited (not in winter). On the other hand, she likes that USC is more diverse, has CA connections for jobs, has smaller undergrad and seems focused on getting kids out in four years. Many of her friends’ parents have turned her off by talking about the (outdated) reputation as USC as being for spoiled rich kids. I believe USC’s reputation is getting better and suspect that over the next decade it will continue to do so. I also get the sense that the UM student body has just as many wealthy kids as USC since half the kids are OOS. True?

Anyone with experience at both schools? How would you compare the culture at each school? Is there a tension between OOS and in-state at UM? Others from CA have any culture shock or depression/issues with the weather at UM?

2

Personally the experience of leaving and being on your own is great for development in college so in that sense Michigan. It is actually quite diverse and a college town. If shes gonna come back to the USC area anyways she might as well go to M. But if she wants internships ect for a job in Cali I think USC would be better.

3

L.A. seems like a different world from San Francisco, so going to USC should satisfy her desire to see something new. Even kids from cold places often wonder why they decided to go to a cold-weather college. The ones from California are legendarily regretful.

4

Thanks for the input. I agree that USC is far and different enough that it should feel like she is getting away. I am concerned about the weather. I grew up and went to college in the mid-west and am too big of a wimp to do it again.

5

Michigan has a better reputation all around.

6

People too easily dismiss weather as a factor. College is a tough enough transition even without the added pain of harsh weather. Even kids who grew up in cold places probably never spent the amount of time outside that they will in college, especially ifthey go to a school with a big campus where they might spend an hour or 2 per day outside walking or waiting for a bus.

7

I grew up in Abu Dhabi (100+ degrees 5 months/year, from May until October) and I had no trouble adjusting to life in the Midwest and Northeast. Many people dismiss weather because to most, weather is not as important as other considerations. That being said, some people cannot stand cold weather and overcast skies, in which case, living in LA is obviously more ideal than living in the Midwest or Northeast.

8

I went to USC as an undergrad and Michigan Law School. I love both schools but USC treats its undergraduates far better than at UM, where classes are oversubscribed and kids had to camp out in hallways to register for or enroll in classes. I took one undergrad class where, for a few weeks at the beginning of the semester, kids played musical chairs to secure a place until others gave up and left. Your D might not get all the classes she needs to graduate in four years. Michigan is a great school but it’s huge and very, very, very, very cold in the winter.

As far as tension, those from the West Coast like I noticed a certain resentment from the Michiganders and other Midwesterners in particular because of the misperception we are wealthier. There was also a large NY contingent that experienced a similar feeling. We used to discuss such issues. USC is less contentious because of its diversity and laid back environment.

Regardless of what she decides, you should be very proud. Congratulations and Fight On!

9

Ummm, this is done online now. No waiting in line for class registration.

Or maybe you perceived a tension because you came from USC…back in the day when it truly was University of Spoiled Children.

10

SeattleTW, I do not doubt your experience, but it seems like your sentiments are not shared by the majority of Michigan students and alums. I was treated very well, both by the administration and by my fellow students. With the exception of my first semester, I never had to wait in line. We registered on the phone back in my days (1992-1996). Today, as UCB points out, it is all done online. You must have attended Michigan in the 80s.

Like you, I also attended another university for graduate school (Cornell in my case), and like you, I took a couple of undergraduate classes, and noticed no difference between Cornell and Michigan.

As for resentment from in-state students because OOS students are wealthier, that is not entirely accurate. Half of the in-state students themselves are kids of wealthy doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs and company execs. The other half typically come from middle income and lower income families, and they probably resent OOS and international students because they are automatically (and usually rightly) assumed to be wealthy. But those tensions exist at all universities. At USC, 25% of undergraduates at Pell grant recipients (compared to just 12% of Michigan students), so there will be tension between lower income kids and wealthy kids there too.

“Your D might not get all the classes she needs to graduate in four years.”

Michigan graduates 74% of its students in 4 years while USC graduates 78% of its students in 4 year. Your statement is based on perception, not fact. The fact is, with the exception of the first semester of Freshman year, students are seldom unable to register for the classes they want.

“Michigan is a great school but it’s huge and very, very, very, very cold in the winter.”

USC has 43,000 students and Michigan has 43,000 students. I would say both universities are huge. I won’t argue about Michigan’s winters, although I think you added two unecessary “very” in your description! :wink: Honestly, I grew up in a much warmer climate than LA and I had no trouble adjusting to life at Michigan (and later Europe and Upstate NY).

11

Lol, long time no see, UCB. :slight_smile: I think you missed the point. Now they’ll just say “unavailable.” Even then, before state cut backs, the undergraduates were treated like cattle during registration.

And the tension applied equally to my classmates from California and New York in particular, regardless of which schools we attended. Michigan is largely white and middle to lower middle class. It is not very diverse ethnically.

Yes, I suppose I was spoiled by being able to enroll in all of my chosen classes, live in any chosen student housing with few hassles, have small classes from day one, develop lasting relationships with professors from day one, and graduate in four years.

I will say this: kids at USC were happier than at UM, IMHO.

12

SeattleTW, your analysis is way off. Michigan students are mostly upper income and middle upper income. Only 12% qualify for Pell grants, compared to 25% of USC students.

“Even then, before state cut backs, the undergraduates were treated like cattle during REGISTRATION.”

You do realize that Michigan does not depend on state funding right? The “cut backs” have not hurt the University. That’s because Michigan’s endowment is $9.5 billion (USC’s is $4.6 billion). A university as wealthy as Michigan has no trouble weathering any financial storm.

You were not spoiled being able to enroll in all of your chosen classes. Michigan students register for their chosen classes with the same ease and frequency as USC students.

Finally, from what I have seen, Michigan students are as happy a lot as you are likely to find at any university.

13

So you know this based on personal experience, I take it. What degrees did you receive at USC and UM?

14

What claim did I make about USC that leads you to believe I attended it?

15

One thing I’ve noticed on CC is that everyone thinks their own undergrad school was better for undergrad than their grad school was.
I’m a Cornell alum, and every year there are Berkeley vs. Cornell threads. Actually fewer this year than in the past.
The guy who did Cornell undergrad. Berkeley grad voted Cornell.
The guy who did Berkeley undergrad, Cornell grad voted Berkeley.

When you’re a grad student someplace you are at a different place in your life. Moreover, the experience as a grad student is itself lots different. I was both an undergrad and a grad student at Cornell, and the experiences were very different. The perspectives of people who were only grad students someplace, while not completely irrelevant, should not be taken as the gospel for what an undergraduate really experiences at a school. IMO. It’s what they observe, looking in from a distance,. Not what they live through themselves, in totality.

If you haven’t come up “through the trenches” living in the underclassmen dorms and onwards, you are more an observer of their experience than a liver of it. There can be differences in one’s perception looking in, vs their reality.

IMO.

16

Seattle,

Yes, I’ve heard from my parents who went to CSUs that registration before computers was like a cattle call.

At USC they probably had the SC Marching Band playing Fanfare or Tribute to Troy while you walked between registering for classes in the sun baked brick plazas…and you got all your classes. :slight_smile:

Technology has improved a lot of things in life, such as easily searching for other open sections via 1s and 0s.

17

It was “Conquest,” actually, thank you very much.:slight_smile:

18

UCB, stop exaggerating. It was not cattle call. I thought it was smooth like butter.

19

Conquest. That’s it. Get it droning in your head early.

20

Op, my daughter had this choice but there was definitely some risk associate with going to school in the Midwest because lots of kids in my neighborhood never applied to any In state school and he’ll bend on going out of state, and they all came back going to CC and transfer to UC. So make sure your kid think twice about going OOS. With my kid, she definitely liked both schools but didn’t want to travel because she had experience 2 summers of studying OOS summer program.
In the end she picked neither because USC only gave her a small token of merit aid. Had it been half tuition like her sister had she would have picked USC.