<p>i'd say michigan's weakness is the lack of nice gyms (sorry it's not academic).. haha.</p>
<p>but wow.. for such a great school, we have such old and gross gym facilities. even schools like BU and ohio freakin state have AMAZING gyms. we should seriously spend some money on gyms.</p>
<p>ncrb is horrible.
IM looks pretty on the outside, but it's too old school for me.
ccrb is sub-par. it's what you should expect at an average school with any gym.</p>
<p>haha at least the fitness places are "free" (even though this is probably a hidden charge)</p>
<p>the only thing michigan is lacking compared to cornell is prestige..the ivy namebrand is still bigger and much more so overseas.. (speaking as someone originally from hong kong)</p>
<p>Bearcats, I disagree, and that's coming from someone who also comes from overseas. Having lived in Europe for 4 years and in the Middle East for close to 20 years, I can say with relative confidence that Michigan is easily as prestigious as Cornell in Europe and the Middle East. I also think that Michigan is very highly recognized in South Korea and Japan because Michigan has been involved with those two countries' governments for over a century. Overall, in terms of "prestige", I can only think of 7 US universities that have an appreciable edge over Michigan. Those are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, Berkeley and Columbia. Others, including Cornell, may have a slight edge, but it is debatable and negligible.</p>
<p>Yeah, when I mean "looking for an Ivy atmosphere", I am talking about those people that want a grade-obsessed statistically nitpicky school. These people think of the ivies like that, and they won't find this type of atmosphere there either, but I'm saying that Michigan is definitely NOT that place if that is what they are looking for.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, but this is blatantly untrue: </p>
<p>Finally, Michigan's student body is not really weaker than those at schools like Chicago or other top universities (except for Caltech, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford and Yale of course).</p>
<p>It's not even close. Michigan is a great school and yada yada, but the student body is not comparable to Chicago, nor to Johns Hopkins, etc etc. Undergraduate student body, I'm referring to.</p>
<p>"It's not even close. Michigan is a great school and yada yada, but the student body is not comparable to Chicago, nor to Johns Hopkins, etc etc. Undergraduate student body, I'm referring to."</p>
<p>I'd say the top 10-15% of students here are. And if you're a really capable student who's academically oriented and challenges yourself, you won't find yourself in too many classes with the "less qualified" people.</p>
<p>Dilsky, I think you have over-rated both Chicago and Johns Hopkins. The middle 50% at Chicago have an SAT of 1350-1530 and 79% have a top 10% class rank... Johns Hopkins have an SAT of 1290-1500 and 81% have an top 10% class rank... Michigan have an ACT of 26 - 31 and 89% have a top 10% class rank. So, the top 25% at Michigan would have an equivalent SAT of 1420 or better (32 ACT) and would generally have higher high school GPAs. Based on these figures, I would say that about 40% of Michigan students would be comparable to Chicago students and at least 60% would be comparable to Johns Hopkins. I don't have the time to delve deeper into the stats tonight, but these guestimates may well be conservative.</p>
<p>Interestingly, all three schools share the same selectivity rank of 22. This also seems to indicate my guestimates are conservative.</p>
<p>I don't know too much about JHU or Chicago, but I do know that GPA/SAT are relatively crappy indicators of anything.</p>
<p>If one bases it pruely on reported SAT ranges, then the top 50% of Michigan's student body ranges between 1330-1600, which is roughly equal to the top 75%-80% of the student bodies at most of its much smaller private peers, like Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, Penn etc... However, we must keep in mind that 1) students who decide to attend Michigan do not prepare nearly as hard for the SATs and 2) Michigan does not report SAT scores the same way that private universities do. </p>
<p>I definitely agree that's Michigan student body as a whole is not as strong as the student bodies at say Chicago, Columbia, Cornell Duke, Northwestern or Penn. I never said it was. How can it be? Michigan has 25,000 undergrads and does a national service. Private peers enroll between 5,000 and 13,000 undergrads. What I always say, and since I have actually studied the matter for over a decade, I know it for a fact, is the gap in the quality of the student body between Michigan (and Cal and UVA for that matter) and their private peers is not that pronounced...and certainly not nearly as significant as many high school or college students seem to think. The primary reason for the confusion is not so much the quality of the students but rather, the rate at which very deserving candidates are turned down. At the much smaller private elites, the majority of highly qualified applicants are unfortunately turned away because they simply haven't the space to accept more. It does not mean those candidates aren't good enough, it just means that other idencial candidates were luckier. At Michigan, the majority of highly qualified candidates are accepted. For the young, not very confident and highly competitive (i.e., the type of student that eventually enrolls into top 25 universities) this whole concept of being turned down or accepted creates a very false sense of quality, thankfully, one that is not shared by more experienced and educated people.</p>
<p>Dilsky, if GPA/SAT are crappy indicators and you don't know much about Chicago or JHU, then how can you say that only 10% to 15% are comparable.</p>
<p>I do know a little about Chicago since my one my classmates and good friends is going there. Her standardized test score and class rank would put her at the top middle 50% at Michigan and she is in the top half of her class so far at Chicago. I realize this is only one person, but her academic freshmen experience doesn't seem that much different than mine.</p>
<p>
[quote]
1) students who decide to attend Michigan do not prepare nearly as hard for the SATs
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uh, how do you come to that conclusion?</p>
<p>From personal experience, I have noticed that a significant portion of students who apply to Michigan generally don't prepare for the SAT and only take it once. On the other hand, the vast majority of students who apply to Ivies and other selective private schools generally take prep courses and sit for the SAT several times, purposely focusing on an individal section of the SAT each time because private universities, unlike Michigan, look at each section separately and take the highest score from each section. In the case of Michigan, I am referring to the typical in-state students who end up attending Michigan. They have close to 4.0 GPAs and are ranked in the top 5% of their class, they come from upper middle income families and pretty much know that they aren't eligible for need-based aid (the only type of aid the Ivies and most elite privates give out). Those students have deceptively low SAT scores. If they tried harder, they could score a good 150-200 points higher on the SAT. Instead, they settle for 1300-1350 SATs. Of course, my experience is limited, but it has been consistant throughout.</p>
<p>I was just thinking roughly the people in the Honors college. It might be a little higher if you include engineering.</p>
<p>I wasn't comparing directly to JHU or Chicago. I was just saying that Michigan's top students compare favorably to those in the second tier. Pretty much all of the top 10-15% would have no problem at a top tier school (but maybe didn't get in because of highly selective/slightly random admissions), and even a decent amount of people who turned down top tier schools for Michigan.</p>
<p>I think my 3.65 unweighted HS GPA and 1370 SAT would technically put me fairly low in the general Michigan class. I'm hoping I've done a little better than those 2 numbers would indicate.</p>
<p>Dilsky, don't forget about the B-School students. ;) Most of these folks have honors college stats but are not in the honors college or engineering. I also believe that pre-med and math majors, and I'm sure many others, comptete in an academic environment comparable to the overwhelming majority of top schools.</p>
<p>If you lopped off the bottom 1/3 at UM, the student body would be pretty comparable to any university with the exception of HYPSM and Caltech.</p>
<p>yeah.. i feel quite stupid compared to my b-school peers.</p>