Mid Level Universities in the East: Any advice?

Parents Forum
1

<p>MrsP has gotten some great suggestions in the thread she started, looking for mid level universities in the West. I'm helping my daughter, a junior, look for similar colleges in the East. Any advice would be most appreciated!</p>

<p>She's a bright kid and a decent student but not really passionate about learning. In her free time she would prefer to play online games and read one of the Harry Potter books for the 40th time. As a result, ECs are minimal.</p>

<p>Finances will come into play. We will need good financial aid or merit money.</p>

<p>She doesn't want a school "in the middle of nowhere." An exception to that would be if a school has a very busy campus. Large is better than small, and liberal is better than conservative. She would like her fellow students to be down to earth and not spoiled. She wants to study environmental science and Japanese language. So a good Asian studies department would be a plus.</p>

<p>Her GPA is maybe a 92. She goes to a very competitive math and science magnet school. Her SATs are 800V, 680M, 740W, and her PSAT score was in the range for NMSF. School doesn't rank.</p>

<p>So in a nutshell: mid level university or large LAC in the NE or Mid Atlantic. Schools on the list so far include U of Maryland (honors), U of Rochester, Boston University, SUNY Bing (in-state), SUNY Stony Brook, Cornell CALS (super super reach), Dartmouth (super super reach). D didn't care for Tufts, alas.</p>

<p>Middlebury is on the back burner because of small size and isolation.</p>

<p>Her high school limits each kid to seven apps, so we have to pick carefully.</p>

<p>Any suggestions for my daughter? Thanks so much for any help!</p>

2

<p>Given her scientific interests, she might want to check out Lehigh. Although it's not a "mid-level" school, neither are many on your list. If she's not averse to an all-women's college, Smith gives out excellent financial aid to women who want to major in the sciences. (Northampton is a small NE city.) Both of those schools offer Japanese; I know because my d. plans to major in East Asian studies, and she applied to both.</p>

<p>Others: Lafayette, URI (they supposedly have a good marine biology program), Rutgers, Skidmore, George Washington, and Penn State. I would have added Drew, but I know for a fact they don't offer Japanese. She would have to do the cooperative program to take Japanese at Fairleigh Dickinson.</p>

3

<p>How about SUNY ESF which is adjacent to the Syracuse University campus? Their environmental sciences programs are excellent and students are allowed to take some classes at Syracuse University - not sure, though, if SU has a program in asian studies/Japanese. SUNY ESF would be in-state tuition for your DD.</p>

<p>BTW, your DD's stats are excellent and it is not too late for her to get involved in some type of community EC during the summer. If she is able to do so, I would say that Cornell and Dartmouth are slight reaches. The other schools that you mention are matches.</p>

4

<p>macnyc, I'm amazed that you think of your daughter as "mid-level." I would have considered her a viable candidate for anything other than HYPSM. </p>

<p>That said, the University of Maryland at College Park is probably an excellent choice. Your daughter would find a mix of intellectual and not-so-intellectual kids, and the university often throws merit money at kids who qualify for the honors program (which your daughter probably would since her SATs are above the usual honors cutoff). The campus is certainly busy; Washington, DC is within easy reach; and (according to my son, who is a student there), most of the out-of-staters are from NY and NJ, so your daughter would feel at home with them. One other advantage to Maryland is that students can use APs (which your daughter, coming from a magnet school, probably has plenty of) to place out of general education requirements; for a student with two unrelated interests (environmental science and Japanese), getting out of some of the general ed requirements is a big plus. But make sure to visit so that your daughter can get a feel for the campus (beautiful, red-brick, Southern-looking), the people (mostly from the suburbs of DC or Baltimore or out-of-staters from points farther north, quite liberal, not Southern at all), and the immediate surrounding area (borderline ghetto, unfortunately, and probably UMCP's biggest disadvantage).</p>

5

<p>How about the honors colleges at PSU? And for a college that is not often heard from on these boards - the Robert E. Crook Honors college at Indiana University of PA. <a href="http://www.iup.edu/honors/index01.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.iup.edu/honors/index01.html&lt;/a> A friend of my son's will be going there this fall. She had been accepted at Syracuse and U of D but is very excited to be attending IUP instead.</p>

6

<p>Consider Brandeis University --near Boston, Good East Asian studies, good sciences, liberal students --small university but considerably bigger than Middlebury.</p>

<p>U Rochester and Boston U. also seem like good choices.</p>

7

<p>Not sure if Drexel offers Japanese but it is located in Philadelphia and offers merit aid. That said, I agree with Marian that your daughter might want to set her sights higher. If she is interested in a single-sex college, she should check out Wellesley. Although it's not quite a large LAC, she could take courses at MIT and there's access to Boston/Cambridge.</p>

8

<p>Lehigh gives good money (15K per year) for students with good numbers (looks like your daughter qualifies). PSU Honors College is a good one to check out but I'm not sure how much $ you would get out of state (Honors scholarshio is only $3500 -UMD gives more I believe). I understand that the honors prpgram at UConn is pretty good. Cornell is very picky - and is getting much harder to get into in the recent past. My son was rejected with a similar profile and lots of good ECs and leadership. Ithaca College is not nearly as prestigous but gives good money. Rochester is very strong in the sciences and gives good money. Boston U is OK is she's likes large urban environment and not much of a campus. It's looks like you have a good range of schools on your list. Best of luck! One more note: My son changed his preferences significantly between junior and senior year. He started out liking small schools and then became attracted to much bigger schools. By the time acceptances came in, he didn't even want to consider any school that had less than 5000 students. He ended up choosing PSU Honors over Lehigh and WF.</p>

9

<p>Rutgers has a Department of Asian Languages and Culture with programs in that area and Asian Studies.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/%7Eeasian/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~easian/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

10

<p>Please do not deny yourself the benefit of investigating the the caliber education offered by Ithaca College. Ithaca recruits nationally is considered all-around excellent in the academic world, particularly in the east. Some "advice" given on this forum is dubious as it concerns "prestige" and quality.</p>

<p>To get back to your question; consider also a couple of SUNYs for environmental science/biology/ecology -- Oswego and Plattsburgh. Both campus are not tiny, so there's a sense of an established community on campus. Of course you would enjoy a tuition break at SUNY. I can't speak to the comprehensiveness or lack thereof of Asian studies at Plattsburgh or Oswego.</p>

<p>Other colleges (and environmental science) in the east to think about;</p>

<p>Saint Mary's College, MD (very competitive admissions for non-residents)
Hood College, MD (very small LAC with a great joint program with Duke U)
U of Massachusetts-Dartmouth
Worcester State College, MA
Salisbury University, MD
Skidmore College, NY
Richard Stockton College, NJ</p>

11

<p>Don't sell yourself short. Try HYPB, Penn, Swat. These are not impossible dreams.</p>

12

<p>I would have to second the SUNY ESF program at Syracuse, I was directed to it a few months back by a parent looking into environmental science programs and it's curriculum is excellent.</p>

<p>No offense, but I'd steer clear of IUP (Indiana U. of Pa). I've heard horrible things about the students there from professors and many of the students aren't motivated. IUP is also pretty much 'in the middle of nowhere'. </p>

<p>As for suggestions in general, I would definately concentrate on schools that offer the BS in environmental science as opposed to a BA. If she decides she wants to go into the consulting field, she will have to jump a lot of hoops to gain employment. </p>

<p>That said, I'd look into the University of Pittsburgh. Now, their Environmental Studies program is a BA, however, they have an excellent Asian Studies program. The biology program is comprehensive and the geology program is geared towards environmental impacts (they offer both a BS in Geology and Environmental Geology, the latter of which would likely suit your daughter). With her grades and SAT scores, I'd think she'd get some decent merit aid. There are links to each of the Earth Science degree options at <a href="http://www.geology.pitt.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.geology.pitt.edu&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you'd like any additional information about Pitt's geology or environmental studies programs, don't hesitate to ask! I'm a recent department alum.</p>

13

<p>"How about SUNY ESF which is adjacent to the Syracuse University campus? Their environmental sciences programs are excellent and students are allowed to take some classes at Syracuse University - not sure, though, if SU has a program in asian studies/Japanese. SUNY ESF would be in-state tuition for your DD."</p>

<p>If interested in ESF, check it out carefully in person. My daughter is a science girl with excellent stats for the school and on paper it would be a good fit, but she loathed and detested the place and so did my husband. The campus consists of about six ugly buildings and the partnership with Syracuse is not all it's cracked up to be. The ESF kids are referred to as being from "the other side of the Dome" and are treated as unwanted stepchildren. Not too conducive to happiness and enjoyment.</p>

14

<p>Hmmm, if you are limited to 7 or 8 schools, think about the Ivies very carefully. The kids in my son's very competitive high school who got in to these colleges were exceptional (top 5%, all APs jr and sr year, 1500-1600 SATs - plus great ECs - including science and music awards and a clear passion for learning). My son sounds more like your daughter - 93 avg, 1500 SATs, pretty solid ECs (tennis captain, Eagle Scout) but nothing special. He likes to play guitar and watch Seinfeld in his spare time. He was rejected from Cornell and waitlisted (oos) from his top choice, UVA. Cornell has a much higher acceptance rate than HYP. So I would stay away from stacking your list with big reaches - and keep good options for matches and safties on the radar screen. But find a couple of reaches that are good fits and give it a try.</p>

15

<p>Another school to consider is the University of Delaware. It has both environmental sciences and Japanese, and with your daughter's scores she'd probably be a good Honors program applicant. UD is midway between Philadelphia and Baltimore, so while you get a beautiful green campus, the opportunities of two cities are within an easy drive.</p>

16

<p>Having gone through the admissions process this year with my daughter, I want to second toneranger's comments. If you are going to apply to more than two reach schools, do NOT make up the difference by cutting back on the matches and safeties. Even safeties are no longer safeties.</p>

<p>If you are going to apply to, say, five reach schools, supplement it with at least six matches, and a couple of safeties. Make sure the six matches and the two safeties are all schools your daughter would love to attend. Otherwise, she might wind up being miserable at the end of the process, especially if she only gets accepted by the schools she really wasn't crazy about.</p>

<p>My d., while considering each of her colleges, was careful not to get her heart set on any one. Sure, the first exciting acceptance made some of the others seem like afterthoughts, but it could have been a very different outcome.</p>

17

<p>I think that the U of D would be a good safety for this student.</p>

18

<p>ophiolite,
Have you heard anything about the honors college at IUP? There is a world of difference there. I have heard that IUP in general is not the best but I have heard nothing but good things about the honors college - it really is unique.</p>

19

<p>Take a look at University of Vermont.</p>

<p>From the Clean Air Cool Planet website:
The University of Vermont (UVM, short for Universitas Viridis Montis, meaning “university of the green mountains”) has 7,500 undergraduate students, 1,050 graduate students, and 380 medical students; 1,000 faculty and 1,800 staff. Located overlooking Lake Champlain in Burlington, Vermont's largest city (population 40,000), UVM has nearly 300 buildings on its 425-acre main campus. Environment is a major focus of the university, along with liberal arts and health. About ten percent of undergraduates major in environmentally related areas, including natural resources, sustainable agriculture, environmental engineering, environmental science, and environmental studies. More than 250 environmentally related courses are offered across campus, and students participate in dozens of environmental projects on and off campus, as volunteers, interns, and researchers. </p>

<p>I know there's a number of ways to approach a major in environmental science at UVM but it also has a school within the college devoted to the subject: The Rubenstein School of Environment and Natural Resources. <a href="http://www.uvm.edu/%7Eenvnr/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.uvm.edu/~envnr/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And although I don't know anything about it here's a link to UVM's japanese program:
<a href="http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ejapanese/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.uvm.edu/~japanese/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Even though it is a state university the statistics are (I think) that about 60% of the students are from out of state. It does have a new honors college and there is also a separate honors program within the Rubenstein School. And I'm pretty sure it does offer significant scholarships/aid to out of state students.</p>

<p>Although Vermont itself is probably in the middle of nowhere for a kid from NYC, Burlington is the largest city in the state and a "college town" It's where Middlebury students would be going to have fun since Middlebury IS in the "middle of nowhere". And although Middlebury comes up when searching for environmental majors it is a BA in Environmental Studies not a BS in Environmental Science which is a distinction you probably want your daughter to be thinking about because she should understand the difference when looking at different programs.</p>

20

<p>Don't know much about IUP --but this year we have an exchange student from there at the university where I teach --who seems very bright, articulate and a nice person.</p>