Middle schooler transfer to private school for HS pros and cons

Parent Cafe
101

The NY Times published detailed data on the grade level scores of students in many school districts here.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/04/29/upshot/money-race-and-success-how-your-school-district-compares.html

A +1 means that students were performing one grade above level on standardized testing. The average student in the OP’s +2 district performed 2 grades above level. That’s actually the guideline that our school district uses for placement in the honors classes, so by that metric, the average student in the OP’s school district is an honors student in ours.

If you are curious, the top scoring district was Lexington MA, at 3.8. There is a search so you can find your own district.

102

OP, just a quick note: the MAJORITY of students at Harvard went to public schools (63%)… same with Yale (58%) Cornell (67%) MIT (67%) and most of the other schools the East Coasters consider elite.

Save your money. That $120,000 will go a long way towards assuring your son has many wonderful options come senior year.

Otherwise you’ll find yourself on the Financial Aid thread, desperately looking for ways to finance his college – ANY college!

On a related note: read this: “The College Bubble and Paying for these Upper-End Colleges”
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1918962-the-college-bubble-and-paying-for-these-upper-end-colleges.html#latest

103

Interesting. We’re in an (almost) +2. Happy with our choice to stay there. Our kids have been well served, especially in upper grades. Not headed to ivies, but that was never our goal. And some kids – some truly stellar kids – are.

104

Yes, I don’t believe for a minute that these rankings are simply a measure of teacher quality. The strong influence of SES was the point of the presentation.

But I’d say the same thing about the prep school the OP is considering. It’s probably drawing its student body disproportionately from some of the strongest students in the already very strong area, and these are students who would likely also have gotten into top colleges from their excellent public school. I’m sure the more personalized attention, probably somewhat more rigorous classes, higher-achieving peer group, and possibly unique EC opportunities, are worth something. The OP has to decide if it’s worth $120K.

105

Our school is +0.6. The top kids (say top 10% or so) in our schools get into schools like Harvard, Yale, Brown, Caltech, Amherst, Vassar, Tufts, etc. Since it’s a large school that’s at least 60 kids getting into fine schools. Those kids are almost certainly more than +0.6. They’ll be taking Calculus as seniors and a handful will be taking Linear Algebra. They’ll have taken three years of high school science by 10th grade, so they can easily take 2 science APs if they like. Most will take AP US History as juniors and some will have taken AP World as sophomores. Don’t overthink the overall average of the school. Look where the top performers are going and are there enough of them to fill classes and have a cohort to be friends with. (Though there is value in being friends with the less academic kids too - in our school music and art are great equalizers.)

106

Our district is apparently in the 1.6 range and I can tell you it’s the rare, rare student who attends an Ivy or another elite school who isn’t a stellar athlete or hooked in some other significant way. The better districts in the area fall into the +2-3 range, so maybe you need to know the wider regional context where you live before drawing any big conclusions?

Of course, I have no idea how many kids from my district bother to APPLY to an elite school either. The average person around here doesn’t know the difference between Penn and Penn State or Bryn Mawr and Harcum for that matter.

107

Right. But high schools don’t “send” their kids to Penn or whatever. Students get themselves in.

Eiholi - I went to high school in St Louis, where there is a huge private school culture. I cannot tell you how many people I knew whose parents spent good money for these private schools (some of which were good, others of which were status-seeking) and then their kids wound up at Southeast Missouri State since the parents didn’t have enough money for a better college. Don’t be like them. Don’t go fixing problems that aren’t broke.

No one will be sympathetic 4 years from now when you come back and say your kid has few college opportunities since you blew the money on private high school when your public school was perfectly good and now you are up against the wall. Don’t make a simple decision more difficult than it needs to be.

108

I just have not seen any meaningful differences between private hs and good public hs preparation - for college, or for life.

109

To get into debt or to spend college money on a private hs, even an elite one, just doesn’t make sense. Howevrer, if money is not the issue, the choice between an elite private hs and a very good public hs does take a lot of deliberation. A freind of mine sends his children to a private hs even though they live in one of the best school districts in the entire state because he feels the public hs is just too competitive. It is so hard to get on the debate team, or a sports team or whateve. At the private hs, his children have many more opportunities to get invovled in whatever they’d like to pursue.

110

Just because a school district might be great it doesn’t mean it is great for every student. My district is the top in my area and sends dozens and dozens of kids to HYPSM, the rest of the Ivy’s, the Nescac’s, the “public Ivy’s” etc, etc, etc, but it wasn’t a good school for my kid. He was smart but lazy and so there were plenty of places to “hide” as he wasn’t a trouble maker. His teachers certainly didn’t care that he was getting final semester grades in 80’s - only because he did the work he was capable of after grades in the 60’s and 70’s most of the semester and me screaming at him like a banshee, taking way privileges, even stooping so low as to pay him for good grades.

His 8th grade science teacher even told us he was the smartest kid in his class but couldn’t recommend him for the honors track in high school.

We had hoped the light bulb would change once in high school but 6 weeks in, after first progress report came home and it was littered with 60’s and 70’s - we pulled him immediately and put him in private school. No where to hide in a classroom with 10 kids and detention with the teacher(s) after school if you didn’t turn in your homework.

It was a big financial strain but it was what we had to do so he would hopefully realize his potential. And he did, getting into every college he applied to - with very generous merit aid and institutional aid at need only school where he ended up going - reducing the 4 yr tuition to the same $20k/yr it would have cost us to send him to a state school.

We didn’t send him to private school so he could get into Ivy’s etc., we sent him so he wouldn’t have his future options limited once the light bulb did go off ( if it ever did.)

Our house was also constantly in stress over his poor school habits/attitude and I didn’t want to live through the horror that was middle school for another 4 years. One just can’t get away with not doing your work / staring out the window in a private school. We decided to leave it up to his new school to get him on the right track and backed way off our involvement/ overseeing his day to day schooling. I never asked once after that if he’d done his homework, studied for his tests, etc. It made our home life much more pleasant and even better it worked out wonderfully. In a week, literally, he was a changed student.

I know many peopl in my district who have told me they wished they had sent their kid to private school but by 11th grade felt it was too late to change ( with two bleugh years on their transcripts already.)

111

I guess it depends on what you consider “good.” Personally, I value the education provided at a good independent K-12 school the same way many here value an elite college education. I like schools that allow kids to progress at their own pace, value thinking out of the box, and don’t care about teaching to state tests. My public schools just didn’t meet that criteria.

A lot of this depends on the kid, but for my older son, I absolutely believe the values he received at his private Quaker schools made him a better person and a much better writer than he would have been if he’d attended our local options. We sacrificed a lot for that education (no fancy vacations or major house remodeling), but not to the point where we couldn’t afford to pay for college. And certainly not with the expectation that it would guarantee him a certain college outcome. We believed he would do well wherever he landed with the education we’d provided him, the last two years of which were in many ways akin to a solid college liberal arts curriculum.

112

“I just have not seen any meaningful differences between private hs and good public hs preparation - for college, or for life.”

I went to a private high school, my older sister to a public high school. She had better grades then I did and got into better colleges. Then she got to Smith and realized she didn’t know how to write a research paper! I’d been writing lengthy papers since 9th grade.

She did figure it out but felt she wasn’t as prepared as the women at Smith who came from prep schools (and our public school district was, and still is, top notch.)

113

We sent our son to a private high school, not because it was better than the excellent public school he left (it wasn’t actually better academically), but because he was miserable. We don’t regret our decision because he loved his high school and really excelled there. I can’t imagine spending all that money and making such a transition (we actually moved to be closer to the new school) unless I was absolutely sure it was going to be better.

OP, if you’re in a good school where your kid is thriving, I just don’t see any benefit to spending $30K per year. Don’t forget that you’ll have to pay for books and things that would be included in public school, as well as shell out more for gas and car maintenance AND you can certainly expect to be hit up for donations ALL the time, especially if there’s a capital campaign going on.

Make a list of the things you expect to be better at the private school and see if they really justify the expense.

114

Here are some things I’d be asking:

  1. Is my kid likely to be significantly happier at either of those schools?
  2. Are there significant issues for my kid in the current public school situation that going to the private school might fix? Or is everything going just fine and pulling kid out means making new friends in a situation that may or may not be happy.
  3. Is the coursework significantly more rigorous at either school? If so, is this actually important or not? It may be and at a certain point it is important, but I am going to assume that a school with a +2 population has a decent selection of APs, a good critical mass of academically talented and serious students, and reasonably good teachers. But it also may mean your kid is under less pressure and stress for 4 years, and that your kid has more time to pursue ECs that may be important to them, while still taking that “most rigorous” schedule for that school and earning good grades.
115

When they show you a list of parent names and donation amounts up to tens of thousands if not more, it would be hard for me not to borrow to donate. Terrible.

@Massmomm @mathyone I’m trying to figure out what to do to neutralize their advantages without having to go.

116

“When they show you a list of parent names and donation amounts up to tens of thousands if not more, it would be hard for me not to borrow to donate. Terrible.”

One gives what they feel comfortable giving. There are many students on scholarship at most every private school. They are not giving tens of thousands a year. We were full pay and gave about $100 a year and also time to parent organization.

I get requests for donations from S’s high school and mine. I give $50 a year to each. His college (and most) sent requests for donations all 4 years he was there. We didn’t donate a thing. Now that he has graduated he gives them a donation and we do as we feel very fortunate for the FA he received and want to pay it forward.

117

You said “if he is less capable of things I might move him.” What does that mean? If he doesn’t do well in his high school, you will move him into a pressure cooker private school? So he can be an underperforming private school student? And you would borrow money to DONATE to a private school? I am guessing that is a loan you wouldn’t get. Put your child in private school, but be sure to bookmark the “colleges that offer full scholarships and good merit aid” threads, you’re gonna need them. Does your partner have an opinion about this?

118

“When they show you a list of parent names and donation amounts up to tens of thousands if not more, it would be hard for me not to borrow to donate.”

Sounds like you’re very swayed by peer pressure, if you would actually spend money you don’t have because of a list.

Borrowing money to donate to a private school is probably one of the dumbest financial moves possible.

119

The private school doesn’t need your donations. They need the rich parents who can afford to give extra to fork up. I still give to my private high school because I have fond memories of the place and I want it to survive. But I don’t believe my parents gave significant sums while I was a student there.

As others have said there are plenty of good reasons to choose a private school - in general I’d say smaller classes and more intensive writing instruction are common and worth a premium. But many public schools do a good job with the top performing students. I think you need to find out how many students are actually applying to the schools you think your kid might be looking at. It may be that the students at this high school just aren’t applying to them, not that they can’t get in. You might ask if you can talk to the head of the guidance department and find out a little more. What APs are offered? How big are average AP classes? Can students take APs before junior or senior year? Do they have Naviance and if so can they give you a guest password? If not can they provide you with some of the info Naviance would provide?

120

You really have to take into account who your kid is and what your school offers and what your goals are. We live in good district (+1.8) and decided to send DS to a private school. He is in college now, and we feel like prep school tuition may end up being the best education dollars we’ll have spent. But YMMV. Here was why we made our decision the way we did…

Our public high school is huge and DS had managed to be invisible at his small public middle school. We felt like he’d remain invisible, and although the school offered a lot, he wouldn’t be able to access it. Such as sports… He was a good athlete, but with almost 4000 in the public high school, we were pretty sure that he wouldn’t make the team there. He did get to play at the private school and ended up with offers to play (D3) in college. Now, had he been a D1 football prospect, or had he needed to play on an elite club team to get recruited by a top flight school, public would have been better, but that wasn’t our situation. In addition, he was persuaded to try a new sport which again, he did well enough with to have (D3) opportunities to play. As you can imagine, one doesn’t try out for a team at the public school with no experience but at a smaller school, it’s encouraged. And he had to work his way up to varsity, but it was possible. Now, to OP’s point, did it help him get into a better school? He didn’t use sports to be recruited, (was contacted by the coaches after he’d been accepted RD), but I think that the colleges liked that he’d been engaged and successful. So not a hook, but a point in his favor maybe. And the bigger lesson to him was that by putting himself out there and participating, he’d make friends and feel more connected, a lesson which he’s taken with him to college. A good lesson for a reserved kid. Priceless, perhaps.

In addition, the way the scheduling was done at his prep school, he was able to continue to play an instrument. A friend at the public school (got a D1 lax scholarship) said that he wanted to do theater in HS but that it was impossible, both from a scheduling point of view as well as socially. At the prep school, most of the varsity athletes were also actors, artists, and/or musicians. Now who knows if this gets them into “better schools” (whatever that means!), but for a kid who wants more time to explore and develop different aspects of him/herself, being in the environment that allows that is key. DS was not keen to pursue music in college, but he has friends who are doing so. Did this help him get into college. Who knows? It showed that he was multi-faceted. But from my point of view, I’m glad he had this opportunity because later in life, he may want to do this again, and he’ll be able to.

Likewise, he could have happily sat in class and not participated much, and in classes with 30+ students, that would have been easy at the public school. He found, however, that he liked being in smaller classes with highly engaged, bright classmates and teachers who really encouraged him. In fact, he needed the encouragement. That experience determined what kind of colleges he liked and made him push himself more in high school. I suspect that it allowed his teachers to write meaningful recs about him. I feel like he went off to college better prepared and more engaged academically, but plenty of students could get there from any environment. While prep school made him a better student, his GPA was probably only in the middle of the class. But his school didn’t rank, so who knows whether it helped or hindered him in the college application process.

In the prep school environment, he took risks, tried new things, and developed confidence. He has friends who are much more diverse than the population served by our public school. I suspect that he interviewed well by the comments that came with the acceptance letters. As for the money, he ended up with a lot of merit aid that I don’t know that he’d have gotten coming out of a different environment. In fact, just a bit less than what we put into prep school. But then again, the kind of schools you’re targeting may not be the ones offering that money.

In a nutshell, I feel like DS got into a better college coming out of prep school because he was a better version of himself as a result of the environment he’d been in. And I feel like he is making more of the college experience as a result as well. But we didn’t go into it with the goal of having a “better” college outcome but of putting him in an place in which he would flourish which we were pretty sure he would NOT at the public school (based on our middle school experience).

So a few final thoughts…Don’t forget that you can use a fraction of private school tuition dollars for enrichment activities if your public high school is fundamentally a good place for your child but just missing a few bits. I have watched friends do this very successfully. High school should not be a protracted college application exercise but a place where your child can grow over the next four years. Thinking of it this way will make your decision easier. It could be that NOW is the best time to spend the money. Or you may want to keep your powder dry until college.