Middlebury vs. Grinnell

To be honest about Middlebury, there has been some recent student behavior that comports with your concerns:

Something similar occurring at Grinnell, at least in degree, seems much less likely.

As a significant aspect in Middlebury’s favor (beyond its superb language programs), it appears you would appreciate its Grandma Moses ambiance and proximity to the old-growth forests of the Adirondacks.

Okay. Thanks for bringing me up to speed, everyone. OP: Apply ED to the college where you had the best first impressions and best visit overall (i.e., when it was open.)

1 Like

I will add that at most places, students who don’t fit in the “dominant culture” will still find friends and can have a great experience. So the OP would hardly languish at Midd because there is an element there that doesn’t appeal!

4 Likes

If you are still looking for ideas to research for possible ED2 or RD choices, I agree with the recommendation of Hamilton. It has the most popular Chinese program of any LAC. This has been the case for decades.

This link to Hamilton’s department will show you their offerings, and will lead you to information on Associated Colleges in China, which Hamilton administers:

4 Likes

The MLA’s Language Enrollment Database indicates that Middlebury had noticeably more students enrolled in Chinese language courses than Hamilton in the three semesters for which data is available (Fall 2009, Fall 2013, Fall 2016).

Of course, Hamilton is a fair bit smaller than Middlebury, but Middlebury had more students in Chinese courses in two of the three semesters even once one accounts for the difference in size.

Hamilton does seem to have more students in Chinese language courses than most other LACs, however.

If you don’t like the location of Grinnell, don’t go there. The location will not change, and you will be spending a LOT of time in that little town. If you don’t like it now, you certainly won’t like it in year 3 or 4.

4 Likes

@warblersrule I went to the National Center for Education Statistics to source my information for the number of Chinese majors annually.

I have never seen Middlebury or any LAC surpass Hamilton in the number of Chinese majors when measured by official statistics.

1 Like

You might find it reassuring to see Middlebury and Grinnell included in both of these sites:

1 Like

Hamilton’s prominence in Chinese appears to have arisen around when it cofounded Associated Colleges in China (with Williams and Lawrence, in 1996) and when one of its Chinese professors was recognized in 1998 by the Carnegie Foundation as the National Outstanding Professor of the Year (Baccalaureate).

1 Like

Middlebury’s relative strength in languages compared to Hamilton and some other LACs, is that it offers graduate degrees.

College Navigator (powered by NCEA data) shows Hamilton graduated 9 Chinese undergrad majors, while Middlebury graduated 8 Chinese language undergrads plus another 7 with graduate degrees. I am not sure why posters started suggesting Hamilton, as OP seems to not be considering that as one of his ED choices, nor does it seem to offer a stronger Chinese program.

3 Likes

I’d say that additional college suggestions, in proper context, are more relevant to the OP than references to summer graduate programs, for which the OP would not be eligible at this time.

1 Like

I merely asked whether OP had considered Hamilton, because OP seems to prefer a rural Northeast setting and a school with known strength in Asian languages, but likes the less-preppy vibe and slightly-less-reachy admissions profile of Grinnell. Hamilton seems like it’s on the broadly-defined continuum suggested by these two schools, and given its in-house study abroad programs in Asia, etc., should be considered as possibly combining the OP’s desired attributes. I didn’t mean to start a debate, but then, pretty much anything can start a debate here on CC!

3 Likes

If you truly remain undecided, you might want to consider admission yield information. By recent IPEDS data, Middlebury’s yield of 30% registered quite a bit higher than Grinnell’s yield of 23%. This suggests that students admitted to both of these schools more often choose Middlebury.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Middlebury&s=all&id=230959#admsns

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Grinnell&s=all&id=153384#admsns

60 Middlebury/40 Grinnell according to Parchment

Note that the Parchment comparison for these schools does not appear in color, which indicates only weak inferences can be made according to the site. At this degree of uncertainty, Grinnell (again, based on the site itself) actually may be preferred by more students over Middlebury (although this would be less likely than its opposite).

I don’t see that these yield trends even really matter to OP’s decision. (If OP is even still following this thread) The fact that a particular school is somewhat less often a first choice for other students does not prove that it shouldn’t be the first choice for a particular individual. I think it’s pretty well established that a lot of students would rather attend college in New England than in the Midwest. OP should determine their own preferences and priorities rather than relying on rough measures of the preferences of others.

4 Likes

Likely because the students at Grinnell got a lot more drunk, and blacked out:

https://twitter.com/thesandb/status/1238984928072798208

If you drink enough that you pass out, you won’t be vandalizing anything.

Drunken craziness after students were told to get up and get out were pretty common across colleges in the USA. Some colleges had students who reported it.

For some reason, Grinnell is lucky enough not to have attracted the attention of the anti-woke attack squads. Middlebury has not.

When Middlebury students called for revoking Giuliani’s honorary degree, it made national headlines. When Grinnell students demanded that Grinnell revoke Tom Cole’s honorary degree for doing less than Giuliani did, people barely heard about it.

As Grinnell becomes a more popular choice for students looking for a college, this lack of interest on the part of the anti-diversity attack forces will, unfortunately, end.

2 Likes

You are right. It’s just another data point. No one suggested otherwise.

2 Likes

This appears to be specific to individual schools. Carleton’s admission yield (31%), for example, was slightly higher than Middlebury’s (30%), while both were significantly higher than Grinnell’s (23%) (from most recent IPEDS data).

The OP appears truly undecided. What I wouldn’t suggest in nearly all other situations, I suggested here for this reason.

2 Likes

Hey there,

I’m currently a first-year at Grinnell. This is my first time hopping back on CC since the whirlwind of last year’s admissions’ cycle, but I thought it could be beneficial for you to hear the opinion of somebody here who was just in your position.

Firstly, about your specific points about Grinnell, I will say that the culture is very unique and diverse here. You definitely have your jocks and hippy type people but it’s not overwhelming at all. Overall, it’s extremely welcoming of everyone no matter gender/sexual orientation etc. and I find that everyone really is willing to learn and open having academic conversations. I also personally like the location. Being from a city (St. Louis) I feel like it’s a peaceful getaway and the townspeople are very nice. And something that I thought about in my decision is that I personally wouldn’t wander too far off the campus anyway if it was in any other college town. That being said, in terms of transportation itself, it’s a very walkable and bikeable area (though I do have a car here, which is very easy to park and maintain, in fact I haven’t even refilled my gas since August…) BUT it isn’t super easy to get here if you aren’t within driving distance. It usually takes people who fall into that category about 2 flights and a one hour drive from either Cedar Rapids or Des Moines with school transportation which can actually be quite flaky. On a different note, to your point about smoking, you would definitely not be a minority here :joy:
I personally don’t use substance, but it’s an extremely common thing on campus (but I would also add not in-your-face or physically burdensome to someone who doesn’t use).

It does take a lot of soul-searching and is hard to fully know until you arrive on campus as a student for the first time if a school is right for you. I’ve always felt like I’ve been having a good time here since I started, and that it was easy to find “my people,” etc. I know the biggest drawback is the location, and I’m sort of in the unpopular opinion of liking it (yet probably also biased since I’m within an easy driving distance).

If you (or anyone else on this thread) have anymore questions please let me know! And good luck during this admissions cycle :slight_smile:

5 Likes