Both schools would be fantastic for law school. Any attempt to weight one more in this area is likely splitting hairs. I am not aware if there’s any stat out there – # of grads who go into law or # of incoming from elite law schools from either of these – that could objectively settle it. When you do look at the list of undergraduate colleges that fed the elite law schools, minus #'s, they are always both on there. But so are a ton of less prestigious schools.
Re #38, has anyone else taken note of the quality of sourcing and writing on the “Little Ivy” Wikipedia entry? Most of what had previously been objectively compiled and skillfully written has been replaced. What appears now is almost painful.
Re #36, by Religious Origin
Congregationalist:
Middlebury, Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Yale, Harvard
Presbyterian:
Hamilton, Princeton
Thank you! Would there be any difference between teaching styles of either school?
This depends on the language(s), your goals, your aptitude, how much time you want to invest in language-learning, etc. But without having any more information about you, in my opinion, it would be better to learn 1 language well than to learn a smattering of two languages. It would be better to focus on a single “hard”, high-demand language (like Arabic or Chinese) than to spread yourself across two commonly-taught languages (like French and Spanish).
Middlebury has some of the best language-learning programs anywhere. I spent two summers there on one language. The instruction and the setting were wonderful. Keep in mind, though, that even the best college language-learning program is no substitute for an in-country immersion experience, especially after you’ve developed a basic foundation. It usually wouldn’t be practical to do college study-abroad programs for 2 languages.
For law school admission, I don’t think it matters at all whether you choose Middlebury, Hamilton, or Bowdoin. GPA and LSAT score differences would far outweigh any tiny bias a particular law school might have for one or another.
You’ll need good back-up for any of these schools because they are all very selective. You may be able to find equally good (or nearly as good) academics (etc.) at a slightly less selective and less expensive college outside New England. High demand for top NESCAC schools inflates both costs and selectivity beyond significant measurable differences in academic quality. Kenyon for example has one of the best English departments in America, offers merit scholarships (unlike Midd/Hamilton), has a beautiful campus, and is a bit less selective than Midd/H/Bowdoin. Oberlin and Grinnell might be worth a look, too.
Two vs. One : you could pick two languages spoken in one country (IE. 2 from German/ Italian/ French in Switzerland, or French /Arabic in Morocco).
It also depends on your current level: if you are in high school level 4, you can take 2 more college classes and be able to go abroad; you can start another language in parallel, which you’d take all 4 years including a semester abroad.
Studying abroad would be a necessity.
One class in statistics and perhaps one other in basic business principles or economics would help your resume.
“Would there be any difference between teaching styles of either school?” (#44)
This may depend on how closely you would like to adhere to the traditionally established LAC model. For good portions of their histories, schools of this type have often had enrollments in the 1200-2000 student range. By this standard, Hamilton and Bowdoin may best exemplify the intimate style of education that defines the category.
Does Middlebury and Bowdoin have the similar emphasis on writing and oral presentation as Hamilton? Does Bowdoin have as strong of economics as Middlebury and Hamilton? Is there any sort of advantage you can think of that one has over the others (in your opinion)? Which campus has (how do I put it?) the most affluent student population in your knowledge? The last one is not a deal breaker but I am curious being that they are all Little Ivies and have a certain reputation…
In terms of an objective analysis, this ranking from Ideas will be as close as you can get to a comparison of the economics departments at these three colleges:
I also just got positive feedback from Wesleyan! How does this school come into the mix as far as all the questions that I have asked previously!
Wes has a great Econ department. It’s reputation is in the same league as the rest. It’s quickly re-building it’s endowment, especially with the momentum of the Lin-Manuel Miranda buzz. It’s larger than the others on your short list so far with about 3,000 undergraduates and a small grad population. It’s probably the least rural of all of the schools on that list, in a working class. Closest metro area is Hartford but it’s also the closest to NYC of all the schools you listed. The cultural vibe of the schools is more different than the rest on your list. More politically active, more independent. Fantastic film and music programs. The campus and surrounding area, in my opinion, is the least attractive of the bunch, but it’s certainly not bad. Smaller ratio of athletes than any of the other schools on your list, by a factor of half. Still has a tiny frat population it has been trying to kill off but meeting resistant. It’s gotten a lot of press due to drug problems but I suspect that’s not really indicative of it being a larger problem than the others. It’s rank has been on the rise this year and was probably somewhat held back by it’s previous poor endowment relative to it’s peers. Great school.
Students often talk about majoring in Econ in a very cavalier fashion. Its not their fault but they shouldn’t. The LACs being discussed plus Bates, Colgate, Holy Cross are also tops in the field and this major is exceptionally math-intensive and difficult. If you aren’t very comfortable with calculus through multivariable, Econ might not be the best major at these schools for you. At these schools double majoring in Math is just a few courses away.
Just take that into consideration.
No significant difference.
All 4 are private colleges with very high sticker prices. At all 4, the percentage of students who receive need-based financial aid is about 45%-55%. None of them award much (if any) merit aid. So at any of the 4, about half of all students would have to be wealthy enough for their families to afford $60K-$70K/year with no aid.
At all 4, the average need-based aid award is about $40K-$45K. The average recipient presumably comes from a middle income family (to be able to afford the average ~$20K/year balance). Selective, private “full need” colleges like these 4 typically award some need-based aid even to families earning over $150K/year.
From students graduating from the nation’s top ~10 “elite” high schools (Exeter, Hotchkiss, Horace Mann, Trinity/NY, Harvard-Westlake … ), all 4 are among the ~10 LACs that get the most matriculations
(see post #23 at: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19856574#Comment_19856574).
Across most of the ~60 selective, private “full need” colleges, I think you’d find relatively little difference in the income distributions of students’ families. Nevertheless you may see differences in displays of wealth (cars, clothes, etc). The best way to check this out (if you care one way or the other) is by an overnight visit to each school.
For what it’s worth (which is not much) my S who was accepted to all of these your considering so far and attended various overnights, admitted student days, etc. at most of them, walked away with a strong “Bro” impression at Middlebury (i.e. jock culture). The people he overnighted with were cliche “Bro” (converted a dorm room into a permanent beer pong setup), with the exception that they also studied hard, and the people he met who weren’t said people generally define themselves as Bro or not. At Wesleyan he felt a strong politically activist culture, and all left strong left leaning (not unexpected). He was approached with people pushing petitions and people debated politics or social issues in casual conversation. He didn’t get a strong impression of Hamilton – for whatever reason the school just didn’t speak to him as much as the rest so he didn’t go to any of the admitted student events. For Bowdoin, he felt it was a bit more laid back than Wes or Midd. And more outdoorsy. Still serious, just not as “hardcore” about it. Though on paper they have as high a ratio of athletes as any of them.
There is a lot of wealth at schools like these but I would say that the school culture at these NE LAC’s and their peers does not encourage flaunting of that wealth.
Structurally, the schools are fairly egalitarian. Meal plans tend to be all-inclusive, so there’s no difference between the regular meals eaten by the haves and have-nots. Kids can of course still go off campus, but no one’s deciding whether to spend meal plan dollars on the expensive sushi or the inexpensive pasta.
The housing is similarly flat. Students choose their rooms according to a lottery. There are no expensive better dorms or budget accommodations. The best rooms will go to seniors with the best lottery numbers. As with dining kids, can choose to spend their money by going off campus, but these are not urban campuses. In most cases the off-campus apartments are grungier than on-campus options.
You’ll see a few expensive cars tucked into the student parking lot, but the lot is usually at the edge of campus and some schools don’t allow freshmen to have cars on campus at all. Clothes tend to be understated in general. You’ll see a whole lot more sweatpants and flannel than designer wear.
I’d say the main differences between kids with and without money are 1. Mostly subtle clues as to what they have at home (vacation pictures from exotic locations, references to expensive private schools, parents with high-powered careers, etc.), 2. Work study hours (kids on FA will need to work, those not on FA will have the option not to), 3. Money available for discretionary spending (pizza, clothes, drinking, gas, etc).
As to discretionary spending, there isn’t a ton kids need to buy at these schools other than school and personal hygiene basics. Most things on campus are free or extremely cheap, as in $1 movies. Sports events are free, clubs are generally free, and because they’re not in a big city there’s less bar-hopping or clubbing.
What are the best majors at each of these schools? In regard to overall strength comparison at other institutions? The schools are mainly Bowdoin, Hamilton, and Middlebury
Also are you allowed to go an Interdisciplinary Concentration at all of these schools? If so, how easy is it to get it approved?
Of the three, Hamilton has an “open curriculum,” so there are few, if any, distribution requirements. Bowdoin’s location is in the middle of a small, charming town, about 1/2 hour from Portland and about 2 hours from Boston, so it is less isolated than the other two. At all three schools, you can design your own major, although I have no idea how easy or hard it is to get approved. Middlebury has the most students, Bowdoin the least, although Bowdoin and Hamilton are in the same ballpark. If you care, Bowdoin and Middlebury are generally ranked slightly higher than Hamilton. I’m most familiar with Bowdoin (relatives have attended) and I think it’s great school - I love the location in the middle of the town and I think it’s strong in most subjects.
Okay! So it’s almost time for me to pick my #1 choice for early decision… So one last time, just to maybe clear some ideas up, can you say which is your personal favorite and why? (My three finals at Midd/Hamilton/Bowdoin) Thank you for all your input