<p>"I think a reason why there's very few people who receive financial aid at Kenyon is because Kenyon's endowment is significantly less compared to many of her east coast peers... standing at around 150 million compare to the 400 or 500 million endowment."</p>
<p>Wholly and entirely false. All you have to do is take a look at Earlham, Occidental, Lawrence, Kalamazoo to see that it is false. In fact, some of the east coast LACs with the largest endowments (Williams, Middlebury, Amherst) have the smallest percentages of individuals receiving need-based aid, and among the lowest percentage of students on Pell Grants (low income). Low percentages of URMs as well, though not as low as Kenyon. High percentages of kids from private schools, though (with the exception of Middlebury) not as high as Kenyon. No matter how you measure it, the data at Kenyon suggest one of the preppiest, least diverse student bodies, with the highest sense of "entitlement" among U.S. LACs; and it is clear that, looking at other midwest LACs, it is because they like it that way. </p>
<p>And, no, the data I've seen does not suggest it is has improved over time. In fact, while other colleges have striven to increase the percentage of lower income students, from 1993 to 2003 the percentage of Pell Grant recipients (low-income students) at Kenyon actually fell 25%; from 10.5% in 1993, to 7.9% in 2003 - only W&L, Davidson, and Colby are lower.</p>
<p>All of this is NOT to say Kenyon isn't a wonderful school. It is!!! Really!! And you already know that. It is a place you should be proud to attend. But I just wouldn't paint it as something it's not.</p>
<p>"it is clear that, looking at other midwest LACs, it is because they like it that way."</p>
<p>Yeah, perhaps diversity is seriously lacking at Kenyon compared to other schools, but I beg to differ on that statement above.</p>
<p>"One of the greatest difficulties admissions faces is in students' final decisions. "The challenge is that we must find the tier of students prepared to do Kenyon work but who will choose to go here," Britz explained. "We lose most of our students of color that have applied here to schools like Amherst and the Ivy's.""
- Quoted from the Kenyon Collegian.</p>
<p>So, it's not that Kenyon likes it that way, but rather it is hard for Kenyon to compete for that small academically strong group of URM applicants with other colleges like Amherst.</p>
<p>"I think that you'd probably find less snobbish behavior at many highly selective schools than at a lower tier"</p>
<p>Snobbishness is a often a characteristic of people who are trying to make their way up, not those who are already up. Compare old rich vs. nouveau riche. At some universities, the famous full professors and nobel prize winners act like human beings while some younger faculty, still to make their mark, are arrogant jerks. It could also be true in a great university vs. wannabe comparision.</p>
<p>Those who are only comfortable associating with people like themselves, and who will spend the rest of their lives doing so, could attend college in their home region. </p>
<p>But if you want college to be a broadening experience, attend college in another part of the country. West coast kids should consider going East, or they might never figure out that the rest of the country is back there. Mid-western kids should get the hell out of Dodge. Southerners may be the most parochial of all, although some bright kids from the deep South traditionally venture as far as Virginia or Georgetown, maybe even Princeton or beyond. If "diversity" is an educational value, think mileage. There is also the advantage of escaping from parents, high-school chums, and the home-town mindset.</p>
<p>I agree with the "go to college in a different part of the country" theory.</p>
<p>Til Eulenspiegel's post makes me wonder if any one has done a study on average distance to college by originating region, bearing in mind that most kids in all regions tend to stay somewhat local. Certainly, some people her in Socal, upon hearing that our D is attending college in New England, look at us as if were the back side of the moon, the word "Why?" dying stillborn, but just barely, in their throats.</p>
<p>I'm afraid that many have doubts on both accounts. It might be said, perhaps, that I can sometimes "pass," though I'm told that truth inevitably outs.</p>
<p>Was scanning this thread and saw your comment, newmassDad--
This is something that I've wondered about recently as our (public) HS Jr son has started his mental list of schools he'd like to visit. A couple of the small NE LACs have a large percentage of private/prep school students. I always assumed once kids arrive at college they go their own way and happily intermingle. However, our neighbor went to Trinity and said it took a while for her to find her niche, as she felt she didn't quite fit in.
This is not meant to be a devisive question, but any views either way?</p>
<p>Certainly, some people her in Socal, upon hearing that our D is attending college in New England, look at us as if were the back side of the moon, the word "Why?" dying stillborn>></p>
<p>TheDad, if you want to stop a conversation, try telling someone in Southern California that your daughter is going to a college they've never heard of in Wisconsin. The silent sympathy you receive is stiffling. :)</p>
<p>My daughter did prefer the midwestern colleges to those in the northeast and California. There is a certain laid-back quality to the mid-west that she, a girl who has grown up in a small rural town but attended a private high school with a high percentage of wealthier students, finds welcoming and comforting. </p>
<p>And, I have commented on this before, but I'll say it again. We found a marked difference in the way Mid-western colleges treat potential applicants when compared with colleges on both coasts. There is less "in your face" marketing and more a sense of "we hope you like us" rather than the "you need to make us like you" approach of many (not all) colleges in the Northeast. That may or may not ultimately translate into the actual educational experience, but, for my daughter at least, it made a huge impact on her feelings and decisions about schools in the midwest (and, for that matter, some of the southern schools she had contact with as well).</p>
<p>Finally, I say this as a native New Yorker but I believe that there is no more parochial part of the country than the Northeast. Northeasterners seem to consider the rest of the country as a wasteland, not worth considering, and certainly not worth living in or going to college in -- and it could be that that attitude affects the culture of some Northeastern colleges as well.</p>
<p>However, our neighbor went to Trinity and said it took a while for her to find her niche, as she felt she didn't quite fit in.</p>
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<p>I have kept in touch with a student that I met here on the boards who now attends Trinity. She went to public high school in the Northeast. She too was initially worried about not fitting in. She has not had any problems and, in fact, is thriving there socially. I think, however, that at ANY college, "fitting in" depends on the student, their social skills, their willingness to take social risks, their self-confidence, and their outgoingness.</p>
<p>"So, it's not that Kenyon likes it that way, but rather it is hard for Kenyon to compete for that small academically strong group of URM applicants with other colleges like Amherst."</p>
<p>Actually it is rather easy, but expensive, as Amherst as found out. They have spent a decade developing a system to increase the percentage of Pell Grant recipients who attend to 15.9%, roughly double that of Kenyon. Each one of them requires more than full tuition in need-based aid, and often hefty support services. And they had to cultivate new recruiting channels, and other ways to evaluate applications. Perhaps as regards applications, Kenyon can't compete with Amherst. How about Occidental, Smith, Earlham, Mount Holyoke, or any of a dozen other colleges, many of which not being in east coast cities, with URM or low-income student groups far in excess of Kenyon? The difference actually is pretty simple: they've chosen to spend significant time, energy, and dollars over a long period of time to cultivate that part of their student bodies. Kenyon hasn't. Of course, that's their choice.</p>
<p>Re; fitting in -- yes, I think you're right, the confident/outgoing student is going to have an easier time of it, no matter what the social makeup.</p>
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<p>Southerners may be the most parochial of all, although some bright kids from the deep South traditionally venture as far as Virginia or Georgetown, maybe even Princeton or beyond.<<</p>
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<p>Thanks a lot Eulenspiegel :).
Actually, among what I would call old family educated Southerners, families who have produced lots of doctors, lawyers, ministers, judges, politicians, there is a tradition of Ivy League seasoning, often for grad school or prof school - if you want to be governor, there is no replacement for the connections you make in the undergrad frat house and SGA, but law school is another story.
My minister is a Yale Divinity grad, I know 3-4 Harvard Law, etc.</p>
<p>Something that Midwesterners, CA and Southerners can appreciate - it is a long way to an excellent school from my house - 2 to Tulane, granted, but past that you've got quite a drive, 7 hours to Vandy, 6 to Emory. You get as far as Duke, it is pretty much a different part of the country in many ways, although it may seem monolithic "South", actually it is plenty enough different for many students.</p>
<p>"I am interested in this topic because my daughter seems to be drawn to the midwest colleges. She says that she doesn't want to go to schools with a lot of rich privileged people (and I'm kind of thinking well, that really kind of eliminates all the private colleges, doesn't it?) But she seems to think the schools in the midwest are less pretentious? "</p>
<p>I am from a small northeastern city, went to school at Harvard, and lived for 7 years in the Midwest. I think that overall, your daughter's perceptions are accurate.</p>
<p>There are major regional differences in the US. The midwest is on the whole more down to earth. The northeast tends to be more into status and snobbishness. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule. </p>
<p>However, a person who wants to live in a place that is notably friendly, down to earth and emotionally warm probably wouldn't want to live in Boston. A person who is more interested in being in a place that reveres the intellectual elite and high brow culture isn't likely to want to live in Detroit.</p>
<p>"Finally, I say this as a native New Yorker but I believe that there is no more parochial part of the country than the Northeast. Northeasterners seem to consider the rest of the country as a wasteland, not worth considering, and certainly not worth living in or going to college in -- and it could be that that attitude affects the culture of some Northeastern colleges as well."</p>
<p>I agree. I'm also from NY State. I'm sure that attitude is reflected by the colleges, too.</p>
<p>" A person who is more interested in being in a place that reveres the intellectual elite and high brow culture isn't likely to want to live in Detroit."</p>
<p>"TheDad, if you want to stop a conversation, try telling someone in Southern California that your daughter is going to a college they've never heard of in Wisconsin. The silent sympathy you receive is stiffling."</p>
<p>They say laughing is good for you. That made my day!!!</p>
<p>Carolyn, using that as a conversation stifler works well everywhere! Unless you run into someone whose kid just graduated from let's say Beloit! A soul mate! That just happened to me.</p>
<p>Listen where I live, it's London, Athens, NY, Boston, a sprinkling of european cities......the rest of the planet is a wasteland. Wisconsin?!?....eh? Oh that's nice.......</p>
<p>I have never been to the midwest except in airports up until now and I am so looking forward to visiting Appleton this summer and Lake Michigan and someplace called Door County. I've heard it is nice.</p>
<p>So from a West coast girl who loves her hometowns and also loves Peterborough, NH and Boston, I am going to check this other place called the Midwest. My son is making me. It should be fun.</p>
<p>Carolyn...Wisconsin? So the student has to get a passport along with all the other stuff to transition?</p>
<p>Cangel, you talking about different parts of the South reminds me of the time I was explaining to a Jewish friend about the differences between Catholics, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodists, and Baptists. At the end of it all, he shook his head and said, "Goys is goys." I.e., there is more same than difference, even if you can make distinctions.</p>