<p>I know a number of parents who have made the decision not to pursue lucrative careers. Some homeschool, have home businesses, some are heavily involved in social issues. The bulk of the kids I know from this environment do very well in terms of college admissions and financial aid. This cluster of families is an exception to the general wage to educational achievement chart in education. Colleges absolutely will NOT discriminate against such families. </p>
<p>I know the case to which Parentofivyhome is referring. It is suspected that the young man's app smelled too heavily of parental involvement. I don't believe for an instant that if the parent were not employed, that would have made a difference. It was what he was doing when he was not employed--making his presence too known in the app process that could hurt. That can hurt any app, as the adcoms are sensitive to whether the application is wholly the work of the applicant. But a parent's occupation and pay, or lack thereof is not going to be a factor against admissions or financial aid.</p>
<p>The OP can certainly aim as high as she pleases with her applications. In my opinion, she does have a bit of a problem with the low SAT score. The top schools are not going to give her a break in terms of being disadvantaged as they might with parents who are not college grads, as she does have the advantage of two very well educated parents. </p>
<p>In her case, looking for a safety school is also going to mean a financial safety. THough her stats are good, getting merit aid is still iffy for her at the competitive schools. Her SAT scores are just not up there at that range where I would consider her a top contender. UPitt, for example, has a 1400 CR + M SAT1 cutoff for the chancellor's scholarships which would put her in the lower end for that particular award.</p>
<p>However, she certainly is a good candidate for admissions at a number of full need met schools. A number of those should be on her list at varying selectivities. Most important of all, however, is finding a school where she is sure to get in and will give her the aid, merit or financial need, to pay for the college costs. After that, she can apply whereever she pleases. Princeton is no guarantee for anyone, if legacies with higher numbers than hers. It is still a high reach, always.</p>
<p>The student in the case ParentOfIvyHope cited was not admitted to most of the colleges he applied to (and we don't know his aid package at Rice and Caltech), so it does not further ParentOfIvyHope's point. Making it even more irrelevant is the fact that the student's father did not attend an Ivy League school (or at least the article doesn't mention it). It appears that ParentOfIvyHope does not like two things:</p>
<ol>
<li>Children of Ivy League grads getting financial aid</li>
<li>Parents gaming the system so that their kids get more FA than they need</li>
</ol>
<p>2 turns my stomach as well, but it's not relevant to the discussion. ParentOfIvyHope has offered no evidence that top colleges consider where an applicant's parents attended school when awarding FA. And just as an anecdote, I know Princeton legacies who have been awarded very generous aid packages.</p>
<p>My parents are artists: a successful theater director and a writer. Unlike all their classmates who went on to become corporate zombies, my parents followed their passions: my mom's theater company performs in prisons and homeless shelters rather than in front of paying audiences, and she changes peoples' lives every day. They both work extremely hard, but they have chosen lives that are more about being happy than being rich. </p>
<p>Get a life, ParentOfIvyHope (seriously, 1000 posts? You're an adult who's supposedly working way harder than my parents), and sort out your priorities.</p>
<p>^^^: There you missed the point again. If you are intelligent and well educated as a person from top ivy should be. Then you should be able to make enough in relatively short amount of time. That is why you get paid more $$$/hr so you have time left for other things in life i.e. doing community service for those who don't have.
If you cannot help your children how can you will be able to help anyone else.</p>
<p>^^^:I'm not trying to scare off OP but trying to convey that it is sad that such greatly educated parent rely on FA to send their children to college.
Think of those really deserving inner city students either born to single parent or no parent at all trying to make it day and night and won't get the FA because of such highly educated parent children who will take a break from making money for a year by doing performing in prisons and homeless shelter while performing for profit in other years as they know how to well manage (mis) their account (Books).
I'm shocked to learn that beneficiaries of Top school 100% aid program are their legacy like most of the beneficiaries of URM admissions are children of Obama's and similar caliber URMs.
It is really shameful of these people to rob really needy students of these benefits. That is why the conditions in the inner city never improve as help never reach those who really need it most.</p>
<p>Fortunately, Yale's immense endownment means that it can give full financial aid to both deserving inner city students and the children of legacies who have chosen socially redeeming, low paying jobs. No group is robbing another group at Yale. There's enough money to go around. I very strongly suspect that vast majority of Yale financial aid recipients are not legacies (given the percent of legacies in the average Yale class, this has to be true). In any event, you shouldn't punish the child for the decisions made by his/her parents. If you want to complain about schools where money is taken from low income students and given to middle and upper class students, then complain about schools that offer merit aid but not 100% need based financial aid.</p>
<p>I read nowhere that OP's parents are trying to game the system and have only performed in non-profit settings this year. I think the FA form would catch a person working without pay for the year before their child applied to college. Home equity and other assets (some schools ask what cars you own, for example) would reveal that year to be an anomaly. Also, schools like Yale don't just look at income, they also look at assets in determining FA. So, if you made no money in a given year but have $2M in real estate and $5M in retirement funds, then you probably won't get aid. I think so few people are truly gaming the system successfully that it's not worth worrying about.</p>
<p>There are plenty of very time consuming jobs with low pay. For instance, I think it's wonderful that highly educated people take jobs such as working as legal aid attorneys. Should a child be punished because his/her Ivy-educated parent is doing legal work for the poor instead of structuring billion dollar corporate deals?</p>
<p>There is no question that the world of FA is filled with frustration, but it's hard to envision a system that would make everyone happy. Bottom line, parents "not earning up to their potential" won't hurt you at the top schools. I confess not to know enough about non-HYP schools to know if it would hurt you elsewhere.</p>
<p>Also, you have to reapply for FA every year, so to game the system as you describe, you'd have to keep your salary low for 5 years--the year before college and for the four years of college--to keep receiving full financial aid. You'd have to have serious cash in the bank (which FA forms would catch) to purposely go low income for 5 years. If you have very low assets (including home equity) then I doubt it would ultimately pan out financially for a person to go low for 5 years to get maximum FA unless they had always lived very, very much below their means (which would imply savings, which FA forms would catch).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Think of those really deserving inner city students either born to single parent or no parent at all trying to make it day and night and won't get the FA because of such highly educated parent children who will take a break from making money for a year by doing performing in prisons and homeless shelter while performing for profit in other years as they know how to well manage (mis) their account (Books).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>POIH, that's a pretty strong accusation that you're making -- that southeasttitan's parents really do make a lot of money but are cooking the books and playing poor for a few years to get FA that they really don't need, being Ivy grads and all. What basis do you have to make that accusation, from what southeasttitan has described? </p>
<p>Or is it that you really don't get that the purpose of an elite education (or any education) for that matter isn't just about chasing the almighty dollar?</p>
<p>You know, you want your daughter to go to "the Ivies" because you're SO impressed with the prestige. Because you learned somewhere back in India that there are only a handful of schools that count for anything, and the other schools are just nothing schools attended by nothing people, so it MUST be true.</p>
<p>Here's a hint. If you want her to be comfortable with the true classy people in this country, they are far more impressed by people like southeasttitan's parents, who have creative dreams and aspirations and didn't just turn into corporate drones because they could, than some drone whose whole life goal is to get to an Ivy because it's an Ivy and therefore the ticket to economic success.</p>
<p>^^In ParentOfIvyHope's defense, I just came across an article which proves that alumni children applying to top schools (like Harvard, as used in the article, and others) will be looked at differently if they apply for financial aid because the school will wonder why the parent(s) was not able to earn a sufficient salary with such a prestigious degree under her belt.</p>
<p>I don't buy into that reasoning. Though there may be people out there with that mentality, as seen by some on this thread and by the comment in the article, admissions to top schools is need blind. There has always been a direct relationship between educational accomplishment and income. Parents who have had a rough time financially, would fall into that category of lower income, and their kids would on average have a lower chance of getting into a given college. By being in a lower income bracket, you are putting yourself in a category where OVERALL there are many disadvantages. It does not make you immune to those disadvantages by having a degree from a top school. Those parents with lower incomes enjoy the privileges and suffer the consequences of being of that status. There is no reason to be jealous their children being eligible for financial aid regardless if their jobs are socially admirable or if they are being deliberately lazy.</p>
<p>In addition to what cpt wrote, the study was conducted in 1991 before the stock market went wild and endownments at HYP went through the roof. I think these schools are more need blind than ever as proven by recent FA changes. The study also appeared to look at only Harvard admissions and what happens at Harvard cannot necessarily be imputed to all its competitors. I don't think the articles "proves" (nor does it claim to, the conclusion is merely the professor's interpretation of data) that students at all top school (study only looked at Harvard) WILL (not may, but will) be looked at differently because parents didn't live up to their potential. They are alternate explanations like the one cpt gave.</p>
<p>^^And I agree with the both of you. I just wanted to give another view point for others to keep in mind. Also, I did mention that the article only specified Harvard; I didn't intend to make an inaccurate generalization. As I said in an earlier post, "life happens (and artists really don't make a lot of money)." So, I fully advocate the OP applying for FA (and being awarded as much as possible). I find it admirable that her parents followed a career that they enjoy rather than one that only earns them big bucks. </p>
<p>Also, cptofthehouse, I am not "jealous" at all of her being eligible for financial aid (I have no reason to. If it was not for the generous FA that these schools offered, I would be going to a Community College in 2009). In fact, I feel as though college (any college) should be FREE to ALL students (regardless of income, race, SAT/ACT scores, GPA, rank, etc.). We would have a lot more children in the books instead of on the streets...just my opinion. (And correct me if I'm wrong: is college free in Europe? Or is it just in Germany and other select countries?)</p>
<p>I love how helpful this thread is to the OP : ) But of course, this is very interesting too - actually, fascinating (especially since it has zilch to do with me, hahah)</p>
<p>to the OP: I think you have a fair chance. Your ECs are on the weaker side, but the Midwest doesn't offer much (Iowa native here, represent!), so it's somewhat understandable. Work on the essays to make you stand out. Good luck!! : )</p>
<p>southeasttitan, honestly! You've posted up this thread so that you can get people's advice. If you can't take criticism or suggestions - you're in the WRONG place. If someone says that MAYBE you don't fit the university definition of FLUENT then MAYBE you don't. If you're just going to attack them then why are you asking people to chance you? If you think you're so amazing then just apply. And, you did mention you have an accent. When universities see FLUENT they don't mean 90% understanding, they mean 99% understanding (not 100% because it's impossible to know every word in your own language).</p>
<p>Your stats are good but WHY are you acting so obnoxious? We get the point - YOU'RE good at Spanish, now GET OVER yourself. </p>
<p>ALSO, people aren't criticising yout parents, they're just saying! It's natural for universities to wonder why you're applying for financial aid if BOTH your parents are graduates from Princeton. </p>
<p>STOP taking EVERYTHING so personally and LEARN to accept criticism, otherwise just get out of here and go to a place where everyone will worship you okay? College isn't a place for you in that case.</p>
<p>Don't be so judgemental and criticise other people in your defense..."corporate zombies". STOP being so closed minded. If you think what your parents are doing is great, that's your perspective, they could be "wasting their lives" according to others. What people choose to do with their lives is up to them. Just because your parents are unique, that doesn't make other people bad.</p>
<p>Listen! you have a great chance, just don't take things so personally :)</p>