My son will be a senior this fall and several of the colleges he’s looking at include foreign language on the list of minimum required courses. He’s taken a rigorous schedule of science and math along with AP English and History courses, but just has one foreign language credit taken concurrently last spring. He’s ranked 3rd in his class and is taking all AP classes his senior year. How hard line are they about that foreign language requirement if he meets or exceeds every other requirement? He really wanted to try to get valedictorian or salutatorian, but he’ll need the weighted AP classes to do that - is getting the foreign language more important than class rank? Thank you.
IMO, yes.
The difference between the #2 rank and the #(2+X) rank is probably infinitesimal in the admissions process. One year of foreign language is just not competitive at all. Doesn’t the HS have a FL requirement for graduation? Also note that most top universities, with some exceptions for engineering schools, will require a FL to graduate. IMO, that is one of those things that it is better to knock out in HS and try to place out in college.
The short answer: it depends. The university will be forgiving if it’s a situation where the HS did not offer the subject, or the one French teacher retired, and the school opted not to replace her vs. the student chose not to take FL to double up on science. Colleges are not expecting, and in many cases, not wanting, students to be specialists in HS.
Our high school requires foreign language OR computer science, and he meets the computer science requirement. The counselors focus on requirements for in-state colleges, and most of the larger universities here in Oklahoma don’t require foreign language for admission. He’s looking out of state though. He obviously prefers the AP science and math classes because he wants to major in biology or chemistry. He’s emailing his school counselor to see what his options are to get another foreign language credit. Thank you for replying.
I know he can’t take a foreign language concurrently without dropping one of his AP classes, but are there other online options that would allow him to leave his class schedule as is and still get another year of foreign language credits for college admission purposes? He’s asking the school counselor too but I’m not sure if she’s checking email right now. Thanks again.
Yes he could take a class online or perhaps a dual enrollment with a local CC.
More selective colleges tend to expect at least high school level 2 at the bare minimum, but often prefer high school level 3 or 4 (or whatever the highest available is). Some may accept proven proficiency in the absence of course work (e.g. immigrants or heritage speakers doing well enough on the AP or SAT subject test) but others frown on using that as one’s only foreign language.
College foreign language courses are more intense, so the second semester of college foreign language may be equivalent to the second or third year of high school foreign language (the exact equivalency does vary depending on the high school and college).
Thank you for the replies. We are kicking ourselves that we didn’t think of this sooner, but since our school doesn’t require any foreign language and the Oklahoma universities don’t require it for admission, we thought he was fine. He took French 1, is that the same as level 1? He can take French 2 in the fall by taking it concurrently, two short term classes through the community college, he’ll just have to drop an AP class to do it that way. He’s going to talk to the guidance counselor tomorrow to see if he has any other options to take it and still keep his current schedule.
What is dual enrollment? I searched online and looked at our local cc website, but it sounds like dual enrollment is for undergrad students who take classes at one the of regional schools and the cc at the same time.
Yes, French 1 is Level 1. Dual enrollment is taking a college class for HS credit (sometimes at the local CC).
Okay, thank you. Dual enrollment is the same then as concurrent, and apparently he can’t take 6 hours at the high school AND a concurrent class; he would have to drop one of the high school classes. He’s more than willing to take it as an extra class, but apparently the counselor told him it’s against the law to do it that way. We’ll check with the counselor to make sure but she’s out of town right now. Thanks again.
in order to be competitive for most top 100 colleges, he’d need to have reached Level 3. Concurrent enrollment (or “DE”) would provide him with the opportunity to complete College French 2 and 3 and thus the equivalent of high school level 4, but he’d need to work through the College Level1 curriculum (which is more comprehensive than HS level1 and would include Honors Level 2) in order to enroll directly into College Level 2. See if he can take HS French2 via FLVS or another online school over the summer, in order to enroll in College French2 in the Fall.
Most academically strong colleges consider Foreign Language a “core” class. They want to see 4 years each of English, Math, Science, Social Science, and Foreign Language. Then for the 6th and 7th classes per year the students can choose to “double up” or take an art class or anything that interests them. Doubling up is okay as long as the basics have been covered - ie., a student who intends on studying STEM and has reached level 3 or 4 in high school foreign language by junior year may take two AP science classes, or a student who has two foreign languages at level 4 or AP can drop science senior year.
Yes. Students who are top 10% wih 3-4 years of foreign language will be considered as having much better academic rigor than your child and an overall stronger application (in many cases, with only 1 year of foreign language, colleges simply won’t consider him though, so the two profiles won’t really be in competition).
Having only one year of a foreign language would be considered similar to having only Algebra 1 because you don’t intend on studying STEM in college.
In addition, there’s often a college foreign language graduation requirement; it often presupposes the student has taken 3+ years in High School. Top 25 may well assume AP level or close. For instance, colleges like Yale or Tufts would expect quite a few classes above the AP level, or a decent knowledge in two languages (equivalent to 2 languages at AP level).
(I’m local to you, so am familiar with the situation you’re talking about. )The rule is that college courses + high school courses can’t give you more than 19 hours, where college courses count at whatever credits they carry. I assume high school courses are treated as 3 each, but I haven’t seen that written anywhere. Because concurrent enrollment requires the counselor’s signature, you can’t overload by doing concurrent enrollment at TCC.
You have the advantage of not needing high school credit, though. If you’re willing to pay (concurrent enrollment has free tuition), and if he can handle the overload, he could do an online class through BYU or k12 or some other organization aimed at homeschoolers. SAT Subject Test to demonstrate proficiency.
If it were my kid, and I had the money and he had the willingness, I’d see if I could squeeze him into http://www.concordialanguagevillages.org/youth-languages/programs/les-voyageurs-four-week-high-school-credit-program (starts 7/20), then beg the person handling Proficiency Based Promotion for your district to schedule a test date when he gets back. An 80% on the French 2 exam would give him credit on his high school transcript.
OP,
My oldest son had two semesters of community college Arabic which, here in California, counts for three years. (If you look at Assist.org, you’ll see that the first semester of foreign language at a community college is worth two years of high school–it probably shouldn’t be that way, and many folks don’t know that, but there it is) He was accepted to a number of highly selective schools including two Ivies and three top STEM schools…but he was also a top applicant.
My middle son had only one semester of community college Italian (so worth two years of high school). He had planned to take the second semester, but hated it so much, he took Animation II instead (which conflicted with Italian 102). So, he had the equivalence of a two years of high school (as per my transcripts, since we homeschool). He did not get accepted to all his schools like my oldest, but did get into some good schools (Northeastern, U Rochester, UCSD) including one Ivy. (But no other highly selective schools-he had several waitlists to other top 20 schools)
Bottom line: I would find a way to get a minimum of two years foreign language unless your son’s GC will be explaining in his/her counselor letter why your son was unable to take more than one year of foreign language. The counselor letter could help a lot as long as you know what will be in it.
Post #10 is an AWESOME suggestion. Voyageurs is a fun program, it typically allows students to test out of French2, and would mean your son could either take french3 at the high school or could jump into college French2 without further prep.
Thanks for all the replies. I’m confused by post #9, about how the concurrent college level French classes compare to high school french. He took college level French I concurrently last spring, which is one credit of foreign language per his high school. In order to get to Level 2, he’d have to take French 2 concurrently at the local cc this fall and if he wants to get to Level 3, he’d have to take French 3 at the local cc concurrently in the spring - is that right? I know that’s not as ideal as treating foreign language as a core class, but he has had a very rigorous schedule.
Which is the best route - take the French classes concurrently through TCC and drop one of his AP classes or leave his schedule alone and take French through an online program? And no, we aren’t able to even consider the Voyageurs program 
The particular schools he’s looking at require 2 years of foreign language in high school, but I do realize that 3 years would be more in line with other applicants.
The usual conversion is that 3 credits / 1 semester of college foreign language is equivalent to a year of high school foreign language. Three semesters of college being equivalent to four years of high school is new to me, and I suspect depends heavily on the college.
One thing to consider - are the requires-3-years schools going to be affordable? If absolutely not, I personally would discourage my kid from putting forth extraordinary effort to be a better applicant to those schools. (Easier to say now, “the money isn’t there, kid, but at least you don’t have to take French!” than to say in April, “Wow, you worked incredibly hard and got in, but we can’t pay for it, so you’re in exactly the same boat you’d have been in if you had slacked.”)
If you’ve already taken affordability into account, and your kid is a relatively good decision-maker or ready to improve that skill, I’d let him decide between high school French 2, TCC French 2 and/or 3, and whatever online option works from a financial and scheduling viewpoint. If my kid were not ready to make the decision, I personally would interpret that as meaning that my kid didn’t yet have the skills to push herself through a giant heap of online foreign language (which requires a lot of motivation, either internal or external!) And then I’d pick whichever of TCC or HS I thought would require less mom-motivation.
Thank you for explaining the conversion to me. The schools he’s looking at are affordable if he maintains his GPA senior year and gets some scholarships. We started with the list of automatic scholarships and competitive scholarships in the Financial Aid/Scholarships thread here and narrowed his choices down from there, not counting at least one safety school here in Oklahoma. His top choices require 2 years of high school foreign language, which is definitely doable. The French 1 credit he already got concurrently was an online 8 week class, so I know he can do it and if that’s what it takes to get to the school he wants, I have no doubt that he will do it. I just don’t know if adding an online class on top of 6 AP classes is a good idea for anyone!
Thank you for the advice. I’m not good at mom-motivation. With 2 kids in college and me starting a new job, I just don’t have the time and I don’t think I should have to motivate them.
Here is the UC/CSU a-g course listing for a community college (the a-g listings are for high school students, but some high school students take college courses through dual enrollment):
https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/details/4376/
Note that, under the “e” (language other than English) listings, first semester college language is listed as “LOTE Level 2” (i.e. equivalent to second year of high school language other than English), second semester college language is listed as “LOTE Level 3”, and third semester college language is listed as “LOTE Level 4+”.
However, note that foreign language courses in California public universities and community colleges are commonly 5 credit courses, so they should cover more material than courses at schools where they are normally 3 credit courses.
For colleges - not high school equivalence. Wichita May vary in policy - college foreign language 1 equals the first two years of high school foreign language . level 2 can be considered equivalent to level 3or 3&4 in high school depending on the course. Level 3 is intermediate/B1 so, depending on the high school either level 4 or AP. ( AP and college level 3are cued at CEF B1 but most high school programs cover A2+/B1in level4 and B1 in AP. )
if your son takes level 2 in community college he’ll have covered the minimum required, ifhe also takes community college level3 he’ll be above expectation and May even get his foreign language requirement for college graduation waived .
In my D’s HS, two years (or level 2) of world language is the graduation requirement. I think that that is required by the state. However, 3-4 years are the actually recommended as that is required/recommended by many colleges. Most of the students would start the level 1 in middle school in the district.